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Rebalance Snowman PQ

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by lv1crook, Dec 30, 2023.

  1. lv1crook
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    lv1crook Capt. Latanica

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    7:57 AM
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    After a full day, there has still only been a single clear for the new snowman PQ. I think it is safe to say that the PQ is functionally broken, and practically impossible. I’m not sure what kind of difficulty the devs intended this content to have in relation to its reward, but it’s clear that the PQ needs to be rebalanced, even if it means decreasing the final reward. After trying it myself for several hours, I have come up with a few ideas of how this PQ can be fixed.

    1. Flying mob HP reduced to 1 and 2 respectively.

    Flying mobs were already a menace in tower PQ with only 2 HP. Flyeyes have 4 HP and stirges have 2. There is basically no counterplay if you get swarmed by even a modest group of 2 flyeyes, and if you are by yourself it’s nearly impossible to avoid taking damage if you get aggro.

    2. Put a 0.5-1s CD on all Body 3 attacks.

    This is event content and this guy is throwing out attacks like he is zakum 3. Make this dude chill out a bit. It’s not so bad when you are all together damaging the boss, but the moment something goes off script (e.g. you have to climb the tree to get health or a flyeye charges into your group from a bad angle) it’s absolutely brutal.

    3. Increase the visibility of the ice attacks

    There needs to be a black outline on the snowflake attack, and also ideally on the edges of body 2 attack. It’s very difficult to see and I have perfect vision. For people with vision problems the attacks might as well be invisible.

    4. Move Rudolph below the snowman

    This NPC blocks vision of the fence on the right side, which is one of the best places to be in Body 3. The low ground below the snowman on the right would be better because you wouldn’t stand here anyway due to the awkward attack range.

    5. Remove the healing mechanic entirely from Body 3 or give it a long CD

    This mechanic basically kills any run that loses more than 2 people. He outheals your damage unless your entire team is focusing him nonstop. Not sure why it even allows you to enter with less than 6 people when this mechanic exists.

    6. Modify the hitbox on Body 3 attacks to not hit the ice platforms at the top

    The situations where you can safely DPS the boss from these platforms are limited anyway, and the attacks are very difficult to see from the top. With the snowball projectiles flying at you and the flying mobs terrorizing you, it’s basically impossible to safely use the team heal mechanic in Body 3 because of this.

    7. Add a more forgiving foothold to the top of the Christmas tree

    Amidst the chaos of Body 3, dealing with the janky foothold to jump to the first ice platform on the left is its own monumental trial. A flat foothold at the top of the tree could alleviate this.

    8. General HP nerf on Body 3

    Considering this is supposed to be possible with 3 people, the HP on Body 3 should be nerfed by 20-40%. Even when you have your whole team in the zone DPSing constantly, it’s rare to get the boss below 30%. Even if the mechanics were rebalanced, I think this guy is still just a little too chunky.

    I think an HP nerf could also be used in the Snow Spirit PQ, but that is just mainly because the KB mechanics are unreliable with the snowball skill and it makes the PQ inconsistent. That sorta defeats the purpose of an easy hold down button PQ for earning raffles.

    Even if every single one of these changes were implemented, I think the boss would still be quite challenging. In its current state, there is no consistent way to win even for a skilled group. Maybe it was designed to be that way, but if it was, that is just bad design. If need be, the EV of the final reward can be nerfed but I think most people want a version of the PQ that can actually be cleared more than 1 time if you put in the effort to learn the mechanics.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2023
    • Agree Agree x 11
  2. iPippy
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    iPippy Nightshadow

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    Wait til we tell 'em about the Jr. Wraiths that it spawns. I do agree the summons can easily become a problem if you dont quickly take high ground and secure both sides, especially the teleporters. But I also like that sometimes you just need the party to peel for each other. I'd rather lower quantity of spawns than their quality, personally.

    I agree with much of the qol stuff (visibility, hitboxes, platform). The insane healing is likely a measure against muling/hiding, but it really just stops a weakened squad from having a chance at being a hero. I'd nerf/remove that and likely buff the total health in return (and consequently reduce the threshold for wraiths and control reverse).

    The biggest issue is still that it's all or nothing rewards. You either kill it (which we only did once after probaly like 5-6 hours of grinding), or you afk for 6 minutes and only fight the first half of b3. Getting to 60% on b3 is pretty free once you know how to not die to the first summon wave, and only takes a couple minutes to get there. Even a full clear run can be completed very fast, only a couple minutes longer than our "active" period on stall runs. But why go for 30% or the clear if we have to risk our "virtually guaranteed" 60% reward?

    I don't think I want the snowman to be too easy to kill to make the runs that go deep feel better, but the ground floor in rewards for bad runs and average players is currently non-existent, to the point that I won't likely run it until this is addressed.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Dano
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    Dano King Slime

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    Finally, someone made this post. Get to work Kim!!
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  4. ohdarn
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    ohdarn Blue Snail

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    I agree with moving npc to increase snowflake visibility, however I believe full clear is meant to be very difficult (wait till you get to reverse phase lol) this wouldn't be a problem if rewards were given as intended
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. mikeyatb
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    mikeyatb Blue Snail

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    On top of the rewards being glitched at the 60/30% marks, I don't think the NX option is even working... The times I've chosen it I don't believe my nx has gone up despite it saying so.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. fehiccup
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    fehiccup King Slime

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    10:57 PM
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    +1 specifically for suggestions 1, 4 & 5.

    Implementing just those three alone would take it down from near-impossible to hard-but-achievable at least for parties who know what they're doing.

    Would also like to suggest rewarding some low amount of presents for failed attempts that reach 3rd body. At least so that it's not "all or nothing" SlimeAngel
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2023
  7. Milkydoor
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    Milkydoor Master Chronos

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    I think QOL changes like 3, 4, 7 are well warranted, but we should be careful about hastily making content easier, especially in a game where skill-based gameplay is already rare.

    It's highly unlikely that players have already managed to achieve optimal execution and strategies, so it's unclear where the ideal balancing point should lie.

    An alternative approach would be to give players more power via opportunities for skill expression, e.g. instead of reducing the boss HP, add weak spots, improved sniping spots, or collectable damage power-ups.

    I've found content like this and demon tower extremely refreshing and engaging for both sweaty and casual players and it would be a shame to see it overly toned down and clears become too easy.

    Fixing the partial reward system would definitely be good too though. I'd also love to be able to see each other's HP through the party HP window so we can make smarter strategic decisions as a team.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  8. randomhs
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    randomhs Timer

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    10:57 AM
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    the visibility of all the snowman's attacks need to be improved asap. I feel like almost all of their attack indicators blend in with the background or are so small you need to pay attention to every pixel

    also I don't know if it's intentional or not but there are hidden walls that block your attacks from going through and I don't think that should be a thing
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. PostureCheck
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    PostureCheck King Slime

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    You know what I would go as far to say if you beat the PQ then you should get a guaranteed raffle ticket. As someone that's semi active and becomes active when a event comes along especially during the holidays when I finally have time off. It's incredibly dis-heartening knowing I have to min-max the event enable to have a chance to get a raffle ticket and then pray to rng ontop of it during PQs for a possibility to get a ticket. Let me have some fun let us not forget the best part of maplestory was the social aspect of the game and not trying to min-max every single little thing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2023
  10. Nightz
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    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Raffle ticket already is guaranteed, even when you only clear it to 60% remaining hp. The other rewards depend on how far you made it through
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. CauTion
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    CauTion Master Chronos

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    From what i understood and fix me if i worng, have to end the timer w/o die at 60% what lead ppl to wait 4-5 min ish and then start att , imo needed to get reward even if you fail at 60% hp no matter the timer
     
    • Agree Agree x 3

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