A discussion on the economic/systemic influences of Gachapon

After reading through discussions in other threads, gaining/gauging others expectations/exclamations, and having an enjoyable ol' critical thought about free market economies and macro theory:

I'd like to make a suggestion requesting a conversation to be opened about changes to the current Gachapon and rare item system based upon the economic principle that diversification limits exploitation. I haven't put much thought into what type of diversification, but here are a couple:

1. a more random distribution of Gachapon items or 2. a more random distribution of Gachapon tickets

This distribution could involve any number of these scenarios and more: 1. drops from 'paths less traveled' monsters of all levels/types/areas 2. drops/rewards from PQ's that are less used 3. whatever you can imagine in this thread that isn't extremely over exploitative

Below are three (slightly edited) posts detailing why and how I reached the conclusion for my suggestions, please do read and understand them before commenting if you would like to refute my ideas. If you already believe you understand the concept and would like to make suggestions on how to improve it though, by all means go ahead without reading that wall of text! I would love to do a poll containing this subject, but I fear there is no way to judge someones 'informedness' on the subject that way, which does matter quite a lot.

Lets have a discussion about not incentivizing systemized exploitation of labor, guys

 

I am saying that the distribution of 'the most sought after items' should be based upon an activity or activities within the game, rather than on solely time/luck. Yes, time/luck will be factors nonetheless (and the free market economy SHOULD create a slight oligarchy if its working correctly), but currently they are dominating factors that will point the server down one path. Diversification of items, or diversification of tickets (tickets not preferred because it isn't highly diverse, could exacerbate the problem as you said) would provide more ways to attain such items that are not based SOLELY on time/luck/votes/REMAINS THE SAME EACH DAY NO MATTER WHAT.

This combined with diversification practices that spotlight the unused parts of the maple world, would diversify both the supply, and the way the items are being supplied, undoubtedly creating a stronger economy.

EDIT: The simple truth,

So I guess the answer lies within if you agree with free market economics principles within maplestory. Now, I can understand not agreeing with those principles in a complicated place like real life. But in Maplestory, free market economics should reign. OR, exploitation will be achieved. Simple as that.

 

No. Inequality is not bad, nor is randomness. You should never, ever, ever, ever, EVER attempt to base any idea in any economy for as long as you shall live off the idea that inequality is bad. Some inequality is necessary for a functioning economy. Not necessary for the game, because the economy isn't necessary for the game. But for a nostalgic version of the game? Yes, necessary.

The bad factor here is that only time/luck are the only factors currently being considered for a vast majority of the valuable items that enter the server. If it were time/luck/effort (while still keeping the gach system as a crutch to help new players and curb inequality) as it is with every other item that drops from mobs, this problem would be all but solved.

For 'inequalities' sake, widen the drop tables so that scrolls and items that increase a players power are also dropped by lower leveled monsters. This may help the servers economy EXPLODE, because low leveled players are receiving equips and SCROLLS (big thing here) that they have an incentive to sell rather than use. (because they want to wait to use scrolls on higher level equips/better items as everybody does)

Aside from boosting the economy, this would also have not so good effects. It would create a merchant economy that would be actively working to exacerbate inequality, but also doing its part to keep the economy growing. THIS sort of 'even low level mobs can drop worthwhile equips' could explode the economy, but it would have to be done carefully so that high levels could not farm the absolute hell out of everything. Then again, if they want to, why not?! This server is about giving people options with how they want to spend their time, right? Stagnant = bad guise

The way you prevent stagnation and inflation is by ensuring the lower leveled players always have a way of building value, not by ensuring all of the better items are to rare for consumption. This game isn't ruined by better equips and scrolls, its ruined by better equips and scrolls only being able to exchange hands through a minority of the players. So give all the players some sort of value based upon the effort they put in and the type of monsters they hunt.

A stimulus plan for youthful characters now, and in the future! Reform!11!!11

 

I agree. I have seen the attitudes of some, either eager to hump the staffs leg, eager to put others down, or eager to have a closed mind. Crashin' straight into a close minded, unequal, no idea how to economics mess.. but maybe thats exactly the type of circlejerk that's wanted by the people acting that way.

who am I to reject someone's circlejerk?

 

I wouldn't say its to small to apply in the slightest. The legends economy has 1000's of producing characters, with over 100 on at an given time, with 100s of different product/scroll markets. Regardless of if all macroeconomic theory applies, the theory of diversification is not simply a macroeconomic concept. Since I assume you already understand my post is about diversification of gachapon items to prevent a time/luck based oligarchy i'm not sure why you would pick at my verbiage, but that is an entirely different subject altogether!

There is such a way. Randomize it. Take the rare 'nostalgic' type items gacha has that everyone eventually incorporates into their endgame if they want to be competitive, make a drop table from it, than evenly distribute the drops at all levels (the worse the exp/hp training spot relative to level, the higher the 'gach' droptable rate; albeit all rates for something like this should remain very very low) rather than through a system that forces vast exploitation of labor.

That idea is completely non-exploitable, forces those with money making interests to train at worse exp/hp spots for their level, therefore opening diverse mape of the game, eliminating map traffic, creates options for people to prioritize, and most importantly adds an effort aspect to the time/luck system.

Think about it, how happy would you be when you kill that monster, and a nice, juicy, rare, random gachapon item that you worked for drops.

 

Nothing? My suggestion definitely changes things up, from the stagnant unchanging supply introduction way they currently are. It forces those who want the higher gachapon droprate to either 1. train on monsters that they can one hit but which are in a lower exp tier/worse map than is best for them 2. struggle against higher level monsters with lower hp/exp ratios that do reach the exp vs gachapon droptable rate they desire.

This solves multiple server problems, most importantly the one involving its 'self fulfilling prophecy gachapon economy'

It doesn't need to cause any more inflation or deflation than the current supply introduction system (gachapon) does, that is all based on the rate set.

Question: Why did you even bring those two words up?????? do you actually know how/when to use them and do you understand that 'inflation' or 'deflation' doesn't occur based on the supply system used but rather the rate it is used at? Or do you not get that concept? because if you didn't know how to use them, than why were you? And if you did, why are you using them in the wrong way purposefully? Just a question.

 

My question wasn't at all about 'market economics,' my question was about whether you know the definitions being the words you are using. If not, than your opinion, as well as your opinion on my 'close minded' opinion, is negligent and pointless. Why did you quote a completely unrelated statement of mine (especially one in which I voice my displeasure for people without foresight spouting their opinion, proving exactly the point i'm making in this post)? I can assure you that any reader with an english comprehension level above that of a 12 year old would think your conversation tactics somewhat laughable.

Again, i'm not putting down or acting close minded about your opinion in the slightest. What I am putting you down for is stating opinions about something you are unwilling to prove you have the slightest basic understanding of. The debate methods, and this type of 'opinion without knowledge' behavior is rather uncharacteristic of a normal, mature maple story game master, but that is also another conversation completely.

 

None of my points contradicted themselves. I feel bad for adding anything to any of my posts that triggered either one of you to have negative feelings towards me. I also feel bad that you both feel the need to continually post things concerning 'proving me wrong' and 'calling me a know it all.' I thought this was going to be a debate, and I didn't know that I would have people with mental disorders stemming from insecurity continuously attempting to discredit me while I gave my opinion on what should be done about something that is currently undeniably the fate of the servers economy. (proven through other lowrate servers in the past with gacha-driven economies)

Gi, I didn't disprove anything in your upper post because there was nothing there. I asked you a question about economics, you refused to answer it, "I'm not going to answer your questions about basic market economics." So I said that you don't belong here unless you understand the concept. Since your answer, I've lowered your need in this thread from 'ehh don't matter to me' to 'does this person have anything more than a tenuous grasp on the english language to offer?'

Low and behold? You attacked me for being a "know it all" while delivering your understanding about a basic economic concept, but still were unable to understand AT ALL what I was talking about, as you still think what I am suggesting will cause 'deflation' in the valuation of mesos in the legends economy.

"Question: Why did you even bring those two words up?????? do you actually know how/when to use them and do you understand that 'inflation' or 'deflation' doesn't occur based on the supply system used but rather the rate it is used at? Or do you not get that concept? because if you didn't know how to use them, than why were you? And if you did, why are you using them in the wrong way purposefully? Just a question."

Please reread this quote, especially the bolded part, and rethink your thinking about how it would undoubtedly inject more items into the Legends item supply, and deflate the value of pure mesos. It DOESN'T.

It all depends on the rate you apply this concept. But, if gachapon stays the exact same way that it is without change, each older player will absolutely always have a meso, item, and level advantage over younger players. Economic theory states that this will make the market smaller than it could be, and at the same time it is prolonging an archaic P2W system installed by Neckson's executives to get your money!

With hard nosed players like you two, NO WONDER IT WORKED. Before you accuse someone of 'acting to smart' or 'getting mad at everyone elses idea,' you have to prove you have a basic understanding of the idea. Otherwise, your arguments are negligent.

Lionheart, most of what you've said is on-point, but the me contradicting myself either stems from you misreading some of my statements, or from you purposefully attempting to slant them for your.. own.. gain? (not quite sure how anything on a maplestory private server forum can be for your own social gain, but do what you gotta do champ!!!) I assume you aren't dumb, so I assumed its the latter.

As I told Gi, deflation or inflation of the value of mesos in relation to gachapon goodies (what you guys are talking about) is not what i'm trying to change here. I am attempting to change the supply stream at which these items come out from just a time/luck model, to an evenly distributed time/luck/effort model. The rate at which these items enter the market doesn't need to change in the slightest.


At this point, since you both should atleast understand those concepts (as i've explained them multiple different times in multiple different varying ways) my argument switches to distribution type. The most even distribution would be a gach droptable that drops from every monster at the same, extremely low, rate. Since I'd like to see other monsters that are currently being ignored in the maple world because of their low HP/EXP ratio, my suggestion is that we have a sliding scale. The worse the exp/HP ratio, the higher the droptable slants. This opens up maps, killing map competition, forces people to prioritize (value vs exp), helps the market, and doesn't cause inflation/deflation.

If you actually removed your anger masks and read, you'd see that none of this is exploitative, none of it rapes the market, and it is much further in depth than any of your opinions have been.

..or you can just keep attacking me for knowing something and presenting it.. I promise i'm confident and strong enough to be your punching dummy, if you need one.

 

.............................

My posts only have the ability to derail the thread for you two if you pay attention only to the attacks at your wellbeing (which I will stand behind and defend) rather than paying attention to the problem that I am bringing to light.

You haven't at all paid attention to that. When you'd like to, join the thread. Until, please refrain. Thanks.

 

I don't know who made you think that you had the internet super powers to start and end ideas, but I believe i've already said my piece, and was just asking for supplemental ideas to add to the new time/luck/effort way of gaining gachapon equips (rather than an endless grind, which was the basis of my suggestion). I don't care about being nice to [Insert random insecure GM with dinosaur picture here]

Quit egging me on on an online forum about a maple story private server. You're a GM, my gawd