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A spin to weapon cancels

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by KurayamiLove, Jun 23, 2021.

  1. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    bishop/bishop/nothing to debuff/nothing to debuff

    Other bosses include cwkpq where Power Crash has it's one single use, to tank 3k damage instead of 5.5k in a party of players that probably don't need that.

    It's clear that crashes deleting cancels would just make them mule fodder, all you have to do is look at other popular private server where that is the case. Someone brings a crash mule and the meta classes kill HT.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. thsscapi
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    thsscapi Mushmom

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    This might be too extreme, but hear me out. What if the Crash skills are changed to being a buff/passive that allows the user to ignore half of the Cancel? Essentially, when Cancel is up, they (and only they) deal half damage to the boss. This way, you can only take advantage of it as a non-mule.
     
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  3. Yoral
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    Yoral Slime

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    ok, this is my first run-in with this information. It sounds like something that shouldn't exist. Can't they make it so mules aren't allowed on bosses? Is the time and energy really worth making a mule just for Crash? This shit sounds supremely autistic.
    Also, if DK mules are already being made for crash, how does that detract from the Crash change idea I posted earlier? KurayamiLoveKurayamiLove
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  4. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    How do u check if the guy's muling? He pay2win, get another laptop with VPN and u cant track him down anymore.

    Also consider HH mules in the past, yes people will feel its worthed it.

    Power crash only works on CWKPQ's warrior boss. Cleaves deal with them. Most warriors have at least 18k HP, and majority are close to 30k without HB. 5k HP is peanuts for them unless yr a dk (which den u would alr have power crash), so whats the purpose of power crash mule again?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. xadra
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    xadra Capt. Latanica

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    Yes people will mule almost anything and everything that can give them an advantage. Look at hammer mules, taunt mules, htpq mules, ntpq coin mules, mules to do scar (aka paladins), SE mules, SI mules, HS mules, HB mules, literal ARMIES of fame mules (like 100+ characters), sweeper mules (RIP), cider mules, owl mules and so on. I've heard rumors about upcoming smokescreen and snipe mules though I'm hoping that's just a joke. Just so happens that power crash is currently literally only applicable in a single scenario which isn't even important (cwk), so no one does it. If your proposed change happens of Heroes debuffing W.ATT cancels happens, you can get ready to see a bunch of server messages congratulating new fighters/crusaders for promoting, most likely all named "ACMule69" or something.

    They tried banning multiclient in bossing last year, didnt work. Just made things more annoying for people who wanted to do stuff like get helms for their own characters while not stopping the REAL autism which is people who use multiple computers and even playing with their legs etc. Anyway, yeah it's some pretty ridiculous shit for a simple braindead game like this, but some people find it fun so eh.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    3 bloodwashed snipe mules still outdmg a lvl 140 unwashed low-fund NL, not surprised if some players go for this while waiting NX on their future NLs
     
  7. Yoral
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    Yoral Slime

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    I'm sorry, what? Does a DK's power crash not work on Zakum?
     
  8. yurain
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    yurain Windraider

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    In HT the cancel force you to move around a bit, and not be a dead set pressing 1 button. This is really fine and actually more interactive than everyone just stand their spot and hold button.
    The cancel in zak, and then mainly scar/targar is the more ridiculous ones. It literally just waste your life away while staring at the screen, and question yourself why you are playing this game.

    Those single target boss's cancel can be removed with a shorter boss timer, or even replaced with a much shorter DR it would still be consider more fun than just waiting.

    I mean, even looting can be changed. This might have a chance right.
     
  9. ma3ohma3
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    ma3ohma3 Chronos

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    waiting for a day i find a use for my hero. rip cleave :D
     
  10. OP
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    KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    The HT cancels make you move around but that's only if you haven't killed the head on the other side. Also having more than one head canceled happens, is not the first time someone moves to the other side and woops the other head just canceled. My issue with cancels is that is just a very flawed boss buff that is used just to increase the length of the run without really adding anything to the run but time stalling. Cancels in the official server now are gone from Zakum (it got a rework) and in HT they last 10 seconds (which is not as bad since you can solo HT fairly easy within minutes), when comes to making the bosses untouchable we got Vellum a boss I spoke about (you can see him on this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuVuH54AIIc), in other bosses like Lucid or Lotus they go to teh background and shoot stuff at you that you have to avoid. Anyways my point is that it makes the game a bit mroe fun if you got something to do,a nd climbing up is not always fun it all goes down to the job (F for all the Bishops that climb up to HS, I feel you)
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    well ok i did miss this part.
    but considering that
    1) zak arms with wa up doesnt deal more than cwkpq warrior, and
    2) iirc zak body doesnt do wa up

    my points still stands.

    I have not done any HT/NT related bosses, but pretty sure most non-dk warriors is capable of face tanking any form of damage except for pinkbean's damage reflect.

    most players aint that worried about potion cost during bossing -> most bossing mules are created with 2 main purpose. 1) speed up bossing runs and 2) prevent deaths of main attacker.

    power crash provides none of those. but if power crash dispeld weapon cancel, u'll start seeing a whole lots of DK mules with the sole purpose of removing weapon cancels
     
  12. Yoral
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    Yoral Slime

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    Ok maybe my question was miss-leading. I was under the impression that DKs Crash skill could cancel a boss' weapon/magic cancel, while the Crusader&White Knight Crash skills debuffed defense-up buffs. This was the case when I last played pre-BB maplestory. Is it not the case now?
     
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  13. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    its not the case in maple legends. DK's power crash can only dispel the wa increase buff (the small little sword icon)

    weapon cancels as seen in scar/targa and zak are not dispellable, even bishop cant dispel it.
     
  14. Yoral
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    Yoral Slime

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    Oh. Well damn, that sucks. TY for the info.
    I guess there goes my idea for Crash changes crymush
     
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  15. OP
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    KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    Don't forget the Magic attack buff too, both attacks up. Is the most useful out of the 3 crashes but still meeeeeeh unless you CWKPQ. I never used it on HT since the Bishop is always better positioned.
     
  16. GunzGaming
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    GunzGaming King Slime

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    in here before Legends does anything like the other guys. Giving paladin the ability to crash weapon cancel is a bad idea. Long story short: Royal's current shit show.

    Here's my proposed solution(s)

    1. Make Magic crash only able to cast with the combo mechanic of charged blow, and depletes the combo once used. You can only use magic crash once a charge has been built up. (prevents muling). Magic crash Dispells both Magic attack cancel and magic defense up. This should also come with slight mage tweaks such as Demons skills working on bosses, making mages more viable when paired with paladins, and vise versa. This gives paladin the role of "Magic buffing" and opens the door to new strategies/mechanics of bossing.

    2. Dark knight's power crash can only dispel attack/magic attack up and avoidability up. Does not require a combo or anything to cast. This retains it's "defense buffing" role.

    3. Hero's Armor crash can only be cast once combo is fully charged, whether it be combo or advanced combo, and depletes the combo on use. (prevents muling) a slight revert of combo build-up speed or another type of restricting nerf may be done to restrict ease of obtaining combo as a mule example: a threshold of the amount of damage dealt must be reached in order to gain combo. Armor crash should now dispel weapon defense up and weapon attack cancel. This keeps Hero " weapon attack buffing" as it already is its role.

    4. I feel that bishop's Dispel is too powerful and should not work on bosses, which would then give roles for warriors being the only ones able to dispel a boss's defenses.

    5. Make cancels not that long or common, so it would only be slight buffs to warriors, and not too op. But still useful/viable to have warriors dispel them to shorten a boss run.

    6. Give shadowers the ability to cancel or shorten damage reflects. I'm not 100% sure if it works here in legends, but in royals, assassinate can damage through reflect without it reflecting damage back. And is an intended mechanic. Make reflect have a set HP threshold that once damaged enough with assassinate, it removes the reflect. This adds a slight utility role to shadowers as they are already the "utility class" and adding another element of buffing the party slightly.

    - - -

    I know hero is getting the buff here with the ability to crash weapon cancel, which I feel is fair and keeps the class's roles. For paladin's, their role would be buffed as mage supporters in boss runs, which is a mechanic/strategy that is never used and opens the playing field in terms of class balance and bossing strategies. While also making weapon cancels shorter, this would only give slight buffs and not be completely game-breaking in terms of how much time a pala/hero can shorten a boss run. These shouldn't be hard to implement and is not very custom. There are already mechanics such as crusader's panic/coma and white knights charged blow that operate the same way, and giving mechanics an HP threshold for activation/deactivation is already a thing in some bosses.

    For me, it's all about keeping class roles while still introducing new mechanics, but keeping it fair and balanced through the game. Giving weapon cancel crash to Paladins did not align with that prerogative.
     
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  17. Yoral
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    Yoral Slime

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    To be clear, I only suggested giving Hero a weapon cancel Crash, and Paladin a magic cancel Crash. I only suggested this because I believed DK crashed both with their skill, because that's what I remembered last time I played pre-bb maplestory.
    Your suggestion is basically what I was getting at, except DK doesn't get a good Crash (which is fine).
    I actually don't remember Priest's "Dispel" skill being able to remove boss cancels. I honestly thought only DKs could do that. Whatever server I played years ago, it was only the DKs that could Crash a cancel, and I hated it. :(
    I would agree with giving this ability to all warriors instead, though, I'm obviously biased.

    Btw, really nice touch with making Crusader have a full combo in order to allow Armor Crash to remove weapon cancel. Same with Paladins & Magic Crash. Really hope admins see this. :thumbsup:
     
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  18. Porkupine
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    Porkupine Timer

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    I agree, weapon/magic cancel in its current form is bad game design and a complete waste of time for all bosses that have it, the only exception arguably being Horntail main body heads since there are 3 cancel-able targets that can potentially stagger their cancels. Zakum/Scar/Targa/HT Prehead/Nib runs are all unnecessarily longer than they need to be.

    There are a lot of creative work-arounds suggested in this thread, but it's all intricate and difficult to consider without first considering the impacts and how to balance it.

    If a solution can't be found in the near future, why not just remove it altogether? I'd like to hear one good argument for why weapon/magic cancels are necessary, besides iTs GmS LiKe..
     
  19. Gurk
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    Gurk Nightshadow

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    OnionMuha
     
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  20. Annolis
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    Annolis Skelegon

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    The only point to them in Zakum, that I see, is that it gives the party a chance to redirect their efforts on the adds for a moment.
     

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