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Add Maroon Mop and Sake Bottle (Beginner weapons)

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Daydreamer, Jan 6, 2019.

  1. Daydreamer
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    Daydreamer Headless Horseman

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    4:54 AM
    I/L Arch Mage
    Maroon Mop and Sake Bottle are two weapons for beginner only. Currently, they both exist in the game files but are not available. These weapons both have high weapon attack.

    I think these weapons should be added to the game because they are a lot of fun to use and give Perma-Beginners something to work towards. They are awesome weapons to show off and help out Perma-Beginners at higher levels. However, they are quite strong, and I think they should have their level requirements raised in order to help balance them.

    Here is some info about these weapons:
    - Sake Bottle is a 2-hand blunt weapon with normal (6) speed. It has 100 weapon attack on average and requires level 30 and 110 strength to equip.
    - Maroon Mop is a polearm with slower (9) speed. It has 220 weapon attack on average and requires level 36 and 130 strength to equip.
    - For comparison, here is Frozen Tuna, a Beginner-only weapon which is currently available in-game. Frozen Tuna is a polearm with slower (9) speed. It has 85 weapon attack on average requires level 20 and 80 strength to equip.

    These weapons are generally Gachapon-exclusives.

    I asked Kimberly about Maroon Mop in the past and she said that it was not included because it is difficult to balance. I agree generally. I think it's quite powerful from 36-50. During this time, a Beginner can potentially get higher damage than a spearman! I don't think that's fair. I think that Maroon Mop should have its level requirement raised to 60 or 70 to make it the endgame equip for permabeginners. Very few Beginners get to that level, and getting further is quite difficult. Maroon Mop would be a fun addition that would make Beginners stand out and give them something to work towards.
    Sake Bottle is not nearly as hard to balance. It is better than Frozen Tuna, but mainly because of its speed. I think that the level requirement on Sake Bottle should be raised to 36, as a nod to the Maroon Mop. If it's still too powerful, maybe it should have a level 50 requirement.

    Thank you for reading, I would love to hear your comments on this topic! :D
     
    • Agree Agree x 13
    • Like Like x 1
  2. DrJason
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    DrJason Windraider

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    7:54 AM
    DrJason, Zrar, WhyDaggers
    Islander, F/P Arch Mage
    Oddjobs
    I agree these items should be added! But I don't think they even need their level requirement changed. It's not like people are going to stop making DrK's to make a beginner instead. Like you mentioned they only really give a significant advantage to beginners in the early levels. A class that has very low accuracy, HP, defense (which is actually helpful at early levels) and attack speed; I don't see the problem with them doing more damage. If these are ultra rare gacha items maybe we'll see more beginners in KPQ and LPQ showing off their damage, that sounds fun to me.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. OP
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    Daydreamer
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    Daydreamer Headless Horseman

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    Well when this was brought up before, some people were complaining about that for some reason. So I thought I would suggest a level requirement.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  4. Myungsoo
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    Myungsoo Slimy

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    12:54 PM
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    I was about to suggest this. I noticed that this thread was never moved to denied or accepted. Can we have an update please?
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  5. zeroxlr
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    zeroxlr Windraider

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    Oct 11, 2020
    4:54 AM
    xxxxSnuggles
    Beginner, Camper, Islander
    Bump.
    Im a new perma beginner at lvl35 currently.

    it would be nice to have something to look forward to if i ever hit lvl +100.

    Yes i can go for the crimson arcglaive at 100, but if the sake bottle and maroon mop are set to lvl requirements around +110 then maybe i can still have a glimmer of hope to grind to lvl200 and explore harder maps.

    if i get a maroon mop, i could also change my AP allocation to more HP or Dex rather than just Str all the way and only be able to just grind on weak hitting monsters.

    in addition, im also working on acquiring the monster ring to accommodate for beginner’s lack of HP, but by grinding up to the Blue tab requires more hp+attk+dex+def, which is instead already being allocated to pure str + godly acc equips. Meaning I technically would be killed in 2-3 hits by most level +70 monsters before i even get to tier 8 to 10 of the monster book.

    Please consider a Level Adjusted Maroon Mop, at least to lvl +110, which is higher than the crimson arcglaive.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. zeroxlr
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    zeroxlr Windraider

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    4:54 AM
    xxxxSnuggles
    Beginner, Camper, Islander
    Bump2.
    After reading the recent updates to the server, I would like to add more reasoning as to why the Level Adjusted Maroon Mop should be added.

    If a perma beginner reaches lvl100, they can use: Crimson Arcglaive.
    This is by farming for 500 crimson wood, by single-target attacking the Crimson Tree lvl75 many many times.
    Then acquiring the Taos some how.
    This crafting of the Crimson Acrglaive at lvl100 is good, but still needs Gold Scrolling to +7upgrades to do 1/3 of the damage of other classes.

    BUT, this gets worse, since Perma Beginners would need to allocate 80dex + Pure Str to even be able to use the Crimson Arcglaive, which further reduces the damage output to less than 1/3 damage output of other classes.

    Having the Level Adjusted Maroon Mop at level +110 after the Crimson Arcglaive, would allow for reallocation of AP into HP for perma beginners, and the damage output would still be less than 1/3 damage output of other classes since its Slower (9) speed rating.

    Consider this: After the recent updates, ALL other classes have the chance to acquire Timeless and Reverse Equips that LEVEL UP, allowing them to explore more of the maplelegends world maps.

    Perma Beginners not only get 1-2 shot killed on the lvl +100 maps, but are hindered due to the natural progression of the Monster Book Ring's hard hitting monsters. Placing the hard to reach HP bonuses further away.

    In addition to the Str/80dex cap of base AP allocation for the Crimson Arcglaive, HP washing is out of the question, as having LOW INT and 0 meso funds means not enough INT equips for extra MP to be able to wash MP into HP at all.

    Having the Level Adjusted Maroon Mop at level +110 is helpful as the end game item being at the end-of-the-game, much like how the lvl120 Timeless and Reverse Equips are items that level up.

    Perma Beginner's Godly equips list are: Purple Surfboard(Event Only), Flamekeeper Cardon(cwkpq), any Cape/Earring, Silver Deputy Star, Facestomper Shoes(pink bean), Racoon Mask(gachapon), Sad Mask(Event Only), Bath Robe (Dex).

    These aforementioned equips are absurdly expensive for perma beginners to grind to the specific levels, then attempt at acquiring even with mesos. Laughable, and disproportionately out of reach.

    It's true that with those godly equips, Maroon Mop pales in comparison. The damage per minute of Purple Surfboard +7 GOLD Fast(5), hits crazy strong and hits hard for all classes, meaning everyone wants one and the meso price increases more out of reach from the perma beginners.

    A Level Adjusted Maroon Mop Slower (9) still hits horribly, especially with each swing of the weapon being "@ roll max attack" type of single-target hit that may miss due to lack of dex/acc without mastery.

    A level Adjusted Maroon Mop Slower (9) may hit ~400 damage or it may hit 7k on 1 lousy monster at a time, and that is still sitting at one swing of the weapon every 5-6 seconds, while the Purple Surfboard +7 Gold Fast(5) of the meso-loaded skill-wielding classes swings once per second with their AOE attacks.

    A Level Adjusted Maroon Mop cant level up like Timeless or Reverse, nor is its damage per minute higher than the Purple Surfboard.

    I'm hoping for the Level Adjusted Maroon Mop to be fun to use, a hit (high or low), not asking for it to be viable, just continued fun onward to lvl200.

    Thank you admin and moderators for the continued support of Maplelegends.

    Please consider the addition of a Level Adjusted Maroons Mop Slower(9), even if it's only available as a hard to acquire Gachapon drop equip, or maybe as a lvl +110 beginner class quest reward would be grand.
     
  7. braidgame
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    braidgame Pac Pinky

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    7:54 PM
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    Just for clarification:
    Flamekeeper Cordon can be also obtainable from Fireband as far as I know.
    Sad Mask is from CWKPQ reward if I recall right.

    Not everyone though. Only DK would use PSB for training or bossing. While some other classes use it mainly for fast open boxes or other stuff I guess. The reason of why PSB is so expensive that's because it's very rare.

    Somehow I also advise that maroon mop can be adjusted to lv120 weapon, but it's 150~170wa with exp-weapon system like Timeless and Reverse weapon. It should not be broken anyways since lv120+ beginner is under 10 ppl now I think.

    Crafting maroon mop quest for beginner-only is also a way for motivating higher levels perma beginner to keep playing it, just my thought.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Escort
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    Escort Slime

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    Beginner
    Keeping such a high level requirement seems so absurd
    1) How many actual Lv 110 beginner that self grind that out there? For most of the beginner that reach this lv, they most probably did some leeching - the appeal of maroon mop is nothing to them
    2) As mentioned by many, the high weapon attack is levelled even with the slow speed and wide damage range.
    This is quite a nice idea in fact - make it a beginner exclusive quest or even make it untradable upon equip similar to the new 120 weps
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. braidgame
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    braidgame Pac Pinky

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    Ye the only perma beginner I know for self-grinding and PQing to lv110+ is LoneWolf1600, but I do agree lv110~120 is extreme hard for beginner to overcome without leech. Which level is to be adjusted I'm fine to it, no need to be restricted only lv120.MapleF2 Why I advise lv120 that's just because it's same as Timeless and Reverse weapon required level for now.
     
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. deer
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    deer Pac Pinky

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    11:54 AM
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    Personally, I'm OK with having these weapons added into the game with no changes (i.e. identical to GMS v62). It's really not an issue of balance; we all know perfectly well that beginners can never have the damage potential of other classes (barring hypothetical weapons that are vastly more powerful than the Maroon Mop), and even if they did, they would still have no skills to go with it...

    It is, however, probably better design-wise to adjust their requirements (as has been suggested here). Probably the biggest concern, in my opinion, is the level spread among beginner-only weapons (that is, excluding "common" weapons, i.e. weapons without job requirements):
    weaponlevelWATKspeed
    Frozen Tuna20859
    Sake Bottle301006
    Maroon Mop362209
    These three weapons are, realistically, pretty closely grouped in their level requirements. From 20 to 36 is not very large of a span; yet, each weapon jumps up in quality tremendously.

    Personally, I don't think that it makes sense to extend the minimum level requirement of a beginner-only weapon very far beyond roughly level 70 or so. Permabeginners live, in spirit, in a game where 4th job (and perhaps also 3rd job...) has not been implemented yet; their "endgame" tends to start around where other jobs advance to their penultimate (3rd) job. In the game as a whole, not having weapons with level requirements higher than 120 makes sense, because the 4th and last job advancement requires a level of 120. Likewise, roughly (subject to some adjustment) level 70 seems like a good spot for the corresponding threshold for permabeginners. Yes, many permabeginners (leeched or otherwise) advance significantly beyond level 70, but the same could be said for ordinary characters advancing significantly beyond level 120.

    With that in mind, here is a quick spitball (obviously very subject to change) of what these weapons could maybe look like:
    weaponlevelWATKspeed
    Frozen Tuna20859
    Sake Bottle451006
    Maroon Mop702209
    One of the lingering issues is how these weapons stack up to their "common" counterparts like Crimson Arcglaive, Purple Surfboard, etc. I think that if we add beginner-only weapons, then we are forced to take the hit here. Part of the whole point of making these beginner-only weapons is that they are especially powerful, so they will always make common weapons look bad in comparison. But these common weapons still have their uses: the Crimson Arcglaive is the ultimate gish weapon, and the Purple Surfboard is one of the best polearms for Dragon/Dark Knights due to its speed being 5. I might also add that there are other "whacker" jobs that are not beginners (like STR mages, woodmen, STR assassins, etc.) and will very much need these common melee weapons.

    Some final notes:

    The Sake Bottle, out of all three of these weapons, is extra special due to being a two-handed blunt weapon. As far as I know, there exists only one other 2H BW that is equippable by beginners: the Toymaker Hammer, which has no job requirements, is event-only, and is untradeable. Actually, this weapon was the very first thing that I wanted to get my hands on when I found out that there would be a Halloween event this year. I was dispirited to find out that the Haunted House quests are not a part of this year's Halloween event... But anyways, it would be nice to have something to use 2H BW scrolls for.

    Also, I just want to second the motion that beginners should get their own crafting quest(s) for these weapons. But putting them in gachapon is obviously a bit more light on the developers' time, haha.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Escort
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    Escort Slime

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    To be honest, the argument of beginner specific weapons against common weapons seems kind of a stretch, not sure why people keep on arguing on that. Job wise classes have mastery skills that narrows the damage range while giving them a boost in damage. Beginners, do not have that, hence the High wep att of beginner weapons makes sense without the insane level requirement. But if you are gonna argue why choose beginner then... :(

    Common weps are there for classes that perhaps are pure build, hence do that meet the criteria to equip a job specific equipment. E.g mages using umbrellas. It shouldn't be made as a argument point due to the face value of weapon atts. One have to account for the differences in attack speed, mastery and stuff.

    Beginners just wanna fulfil the janitor's dream. Even janitor's mop discriminates against us:banghead:
     
    • Agree Agree x 2

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