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Information Anniversary 2020 Skill Changes [Explained]

Discussion in 'Update Notes' started by Nise, May 23, 2020.

  1. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    At MapleLegends, we've tirelessly been working on achieving a balance in the game that wasn't found in the original version of MapleStory v62. There have been lots of changes over the years to skills and classes in order to realize our balance philosophy. Which revolves around three major pillars: 1) transparency in reasoning, 2) preserving class identity during changes, 3) making all classes rewarding and viable in their own unique merit.

    Before we explain the Anniversary 2020 skill changes, it is important to understand the current balance state of MapleLegends (following all the previous skill changes listed here).

    Current Balance State of ML

    [​IMG]

    We first refer to the maximum damage possible possible from each class with SE (as that's the usual boss run composition). Maximum damage is calculated assuming a Level 200 character using MW20 + perfect weapon (stats vary according to class) + 120 WA gelt chocolate + 21 WA glove + 20WA cape + 10 WA MoN + 21 WA Socks. Few important observations is 1) Nightlords do the most damage with SE, which isn't shocking at all, 2) Paladins do the highest single-target damage amongst warriors, 3) Marksman damage is one of the lowest at end-game, and the other two classes (DKs and Shads) are able to cleave.

    Buccs are a little special, so the normal combo (Barrage + Dragon strike) damage is done without energy charge (which gives them +20 WA), while Supertransform is based off Demolition damage with energy charge. So imagine their damage fluctuating between those two points.

    [​IMG]

    Then comes the damage with SE+SI, which does shift a few things around. But most important observations are: 1) Realistic Corsair damage is still lower than Nightlords (which don't benefit at all from SI), 2) Paladins remain the best warrior class for single target damage, which is the intended class design according to Neckson (as DKs and Heroes are able to cleave), 3) Marksmen still have one of the lowest end-game damage with SI.

    BEFORE, the Heroes, Dark Knights, and Shadowers jump to conclusions, look at the cleave damage chart below. What both graphs can't show is the Shadower's full potential, as they don't visualize assassinate damage after weapon cancel, which does 199k x 4 lines. There are additional factors that have to be mentioned about Shadowers: having the best survivability (meso guard + shifter + invisibility frames), versatility (high single target damage & decent cleave damage), and supportive capabilities (smokescreen). Thereby establishing them as the jack-of-all-trades (as their class identity).

    [​IMG]

    [Current] Max Single Target Damage Comparison: https://imgur.com/a/V2xxqys
    [Current] Max Cleave Damage Comparison: https://imgur.com/a/PFzQUEQ

    Balancing Archers (Bowmasters vs Marksmen)

    When we compare the two archer classes, it's understandable that Bowmasters should have the better end-game, seeing that marksmen have the superior early game because of snipe dealing 199k every 5 seconds.

    [​IMG]

    However, what isn't really exposed is just how quickly Marksmen get out-scaled. With exactly 147 total weapon attack (that's one average scrolled bow, a 12 weapon attack glove, and a bear buff), Bowmen quickly deal better damage. Even with SI, it doesn't take much for them to be totally eclipsed by a class that doesn't benefit from SI.

    [​IMG]

    With our two pronged change of Marksman/Crossbow Expert and the Strafe change, the scaling should look more like this and put the archer class (as a whole) back as a better single-target damage dealer than the cleave classes.

    [​IMG]

    Balancing Corsairs

    Corsairs are a tough class to balance. So tough, that Neckson straight out removed the Battleship mechanic and gave up on it in later versions. In an effort to achieve our definition of balance, rather than looking at purely theoretical numbers with 100% IDEAL situations (free-fire DPM), we decided to approach it from a realistic scenario (factoring in dismount animation and time).

    [​IMG]

    Referring back to the max damage comparisons, with the realistic DPM, we can see that Nightlords outdamage Corsairs even when they have SE+SI. If we take into account that Corsairs are unable to maintain this DPM, due to the ship cooldown time once it breaks, it became more apparent things could be better balanced with this class.

    If dismounting (which is a core element of Corsair class identity) ruins the damage output, we thought it might be better to improve the payoff for while you are on the ship. Thereby bringing the class' actual damage more in line with the other ranged attackers. The damage buff seem high, but considering when the ship is gone (and you rely on rapid fire) your DPM is lowered drastically (and also scales terribly as seen from the chart), we thought the change won't be game-breaking.

    [​IMG]

    Improving Nightlords

    While Nightlords have the HIGHEST damage output and scale the best with weapon attack, their reliance on SE is unbelievable. They say that, much like an addiction, a Nightlord without SE will also go through withdrawal symptoms. Because of how the damage is calculated we weren't able to entirely solve this problem, BUT we were able to improve the Nightlord damage without SE by a little. By reworking crit throw so that when you hit harder, but crit less number of times. This change (magically) manages to keep with-SE damage at the exact same amount, but buff SE-less damage. Note that at earlier stages of the game, the change will be less noticeable. This might be baby steps, but we hope to continue to look into this, and maybe make a break through.

    [​IMG]

    Nightlord damage (with SE) is in a very strong place at the moment. But based off how SE works, if we were to buff SE-less damage, the with-SE damage would be buffed tremendously. Which would completely undermine our other balance efforts. Without re-working SE entirely, any changes to the Nightlord class itself, from all the iterations to the formula, kept leading to the path of majorly buffed with-SE damage.

    Post-Change Balance State of ML

    The effect of all these changes can be seen in-depth on https://imgur.com/a/V2hSSp2.

    [​IMG]

    Thanks for reading till the end of this very long and in-depth explanation of the Anniversary 2020 Skill Changes! We hope this was insightful in many ways, including our balancing process as well as comprehending the numerous changes that have been implemented over the years on MapleLegends!

    We will continue to monitor how these changes affect gameplay, and what other skill changes we should embark on down the line. We'll keep an eye out for your responses, and till then have fun Mapling~
     
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  2. Romel
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    Romel Stone Golem

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    It seems to me a good balance, but I see the buccaneer on your boards and I feel sad (low dpm) despite the improvements they gave them, playing 2 years in bucc I saw those changes, I proposed modifying the stun masteri to an additional constant critical% to enhance them in bosses, they told me that it is impossible, I do good damage training used SE to the second hit by the stun but in HT or other bosses I am a simple pirate who only use my clean damage base for a difference of a DK the % that a critical using SE in barrange or other attack is too low.
    On the other hand, it motivates me to continue breaking schemes with my pirate on the server and show them that a buccaneer can also get whites if he wants to.
     
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  3. usoagain
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    usoagain Red Snail

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    Curious what the reasoning is that Night Lords have lower damage than Corsairs in these changes, when Night Lords are, as far as I know, supposed to be the premier single target DPS class, especially seeing as the only time NL's are as strong as depicted are when we have SE, otherwise we're extremely weak (ie, while training). I played NL for many years, both on private servers and on the official maple server, and from my experience almost any other class, with some exceptions, can train faster up the levels, due to mobbing skills that NL's just don't get access to. We have 1 skill, at 3rd job, that we can use to mob with, that's it. All other skills are just self buffs and minor utility, and some janky other skills that are semi-useless, with the exception of Haste. Meanwhile, Corsairs get a mobbing skill from lvl 30 onwards.

    Maybe I'm missing something here though, as I understand these calculations are in the context of bossing only. I only bring my point up because of the argument for Marksman vs Bowman.
     
  4. cglavatchi
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    cglavatchi Mano

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    RIP heros loool whats the point of even maining one now T-T
     
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  5. OP
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    Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Stun mastery (from what I know) doesn't apply to bosses, which is probably why the figures seem different than expected. We are looking into bucc changes, but we wanted to get them right before we released them. So keep an eye for the later patches ;)

    It's because Corsairs can't maintain a 100% ship uptime, once they sink the ship, the damage gets reduced drastically. And your mobbing capabilities also disappear, since you don't have access to torpedo. And the idea of premier single target DPS class undermines any notion of balancing, since all classes should be equally viable and strong (with their respective avenues). NLs have lots of self utility with high avoid, alchemist, Meso Up, Taunt. As such, there should be some leeway to making the other classes catch up to the efficiency/effectiveness of NLs. That would apply not just to corsairs, but also to the other ranged single target classes
     
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  6. echung379
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    echung379 Brown Teddy

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    If you've played as a sair you'll know how annoying/difficult it is to dismount and never lose your ship in a boss battle. If you lose your ship, your DPM is cut tremendously. In practice, it's really hard to not lose your ship at all in most boss battles. So when you're on cooldown, your damage will suffer. And even when you're on your ship, you can't just constantly attack because you have to dismount and remount and that takes time, whereas an NL can just hold a button and attack nonstop.

    NLs can achieve optimal DPM while holding a button down with their high avoidability + shifter.

    There's a reason you see 10 NLs for every 1 sair
     
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  7. maybeandy
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    maybeandy Stone Golem

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    Interesting read, time to remake Corsair.
     
  8. usoagain
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    usoagain Red Snail

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    - Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't Corsairs have other mobbing skills they can use off ship? NL's can't use their 1 mobbing skill unless they have space as well, so they can't mob in every map unless they "herd" mobs around. Its irritating to say the least. Grinding an NL is probably non-existent on this server, people probably just pay to leech to high levels, or leech themselves (what I plan to do) because its just that hard.
    - Taunt is borderline useless. You don't even level that skill until 168+ or so.
    - Meso up is fine, but it doesn't really attribute to much.
    - Alchemist just got nerfed...its fine though.
    - High avoid is required, we have extremely low health and HP washing is basically mandatory if NL's want to boss run

    I'm not saying NL's should be head and shoulders above any other damage, I'm just saying NL is probably one of the most funding intensive classes in the entire game, requiring HP washes and good equipment, plus SE, only to come second to a class with better mobbing and better survivability. There's basically no reason to go NL when you can go Corsair (except for nostalgia), when in my opinion each class should have something about them that makes you want to play them, with out being just ridiculous. Overall, I think the balancing is great, I just don't agree with this one part. Either way, I'm just voicing my opinion as an NL main of 12 years, who's played on multiple private servers.
     
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  9. echung379
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    echung379 Brown Teddy

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    You do realize it's harder to wash a corsair than an NL right? It takes -16mp per wash whereas NLs lose -12mp per wash, so saying that it's harder to wash an NL than a sair is factually incorrect. With the same amount of INT, a sair will have significantly less HP than an NL at the same level.

    Also, sairs have worse surviavbility, because they have lower avoidability, no shifter, and have to have 100% ship uptime to match NL DPM (which again, in practice, is unlikely).

    And even with all that, sairs still do less damage than NL without SI, which is like 90% of the time because there aren't many bucc mains.
     
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  10. Romel
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    Romel Stone Golem

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    I played my buccaneer in EMS before BB and I was top 3 of the old school pirates, I am not an expert but I know this class well, if you want any suggestion with pleasure I will contribute with my experience

    vevic.png
     
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  11. Sumilidon 25
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    Sumilidon 25 King Slime

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    ??? Have you played a corsair before 4th job pre BB? Seriously. Again, ship is easy to break and corsairs have very LOW avoid compared to NL's whom can literally boss anywhere.(have fun at TOAD, or nameless) kekw. Also nx is free so every ranged dpm washes why wouldn't you.... not to mention; battleship has dismount and is slow as hell, noway you can keep octo and gallo up not mention corsairs dont have any party buffs outside of mw and outdamage with si the list goes on man. The buff is not gamebreaking at all and NL's will still be fine cool to see the xbows get some love so i can finally stop dropping xbow scrolls ^.^ .
     
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  12. usoagain
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    usoagain Red Snail

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    No where did I say NL's are HARDER to wash than sairs. I am not that versed in sairs, so I can't comment on that. I just know that if you don't wash as an NL, you basically cannot boss until very late levels, period. Its still easier to mob on sairs and train to higher levels with less money than an NL.

    You're completely ignoring mobbing in all of your replies. I concede that having a ship mode makes the class more skill based. However, the way I read his original post, he takes that in to account, and with mounting and dismounting they still do more damage.

    As for SI, I wonder why buccs are so weak, it seems like they might need some love to give them more upside to play, and bring SI more often.

    We can agree to disagree, I'm just saying that in my opinion, if NL's have so little mobbing, overall utility to provide, and low survivability, they should have the upside of single target DPS. In my eyes, sairs have the upside of mobbing skills from level 30, and as a result can level up much more easier and pain free, and with out the near necessity that NL's have for leeching. This is opinion based though, and we're both entitled to harbor our own opinions.
     
  13. echung379
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    echung379 Brown Teddy

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    I mean, you were comparing sairs and NL's in your entire post, and you were saying that NLs should have #1 DPM because they are hard to wash. I'm just saying that sairs are also hard to wash.

    And the thing about mobbing. If you're washing seriously as either a sair or an NL, you're probably going to have at least 120 base int, and so it doesn't really matter what mobbing skills you have access to at level 30 because you're not going to be able to self train anyway with 150+ int.
     
  14. Ambrose
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    you forgot about mage attacker dps.
     
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  15. OP
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    Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    I really really wanted to get that in there, but I also couldn't figure out like "equivalent" scaling for magic attack and weapon attack :( Not to mention I'm still trying to wrap my head around mage math :s next patch hopefully
     
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  16. Marc Antony
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    Marc Antony Master Chronos

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    I'm just a bit confused by what's meant, saying that the graphs don't showcase the Shadower's full potential. Does Assassinate get buffed during weapon cancel phases? So, the graphs showcase DPS during non-cancel periods, and then the Shadower receives a buff during cancels? I'm a baby Shad not quite ready for bossing yet haha

    Yeah based on this data I'm curious to hear what the 'class identity' of the Hero is supposed to be. Low single target dps but good cleavers with high survivability? Is this enough of a draw, when DKs and Paladins both have superior damage, buffs, and ultimate/AoE attacks?
     
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  17. cakesogood
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    cakesogood Windraider

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    you guys are funny man

    buffing nls without relying on se the most broken class in game

    then giving corsairs the highest dps dummy target class a 20% dmg buff when some bosses don't even get to hit the ship like neo tokyo

    meanwhile pepega class like buccandeer receives no changes and people can still abuse them with a second computer
     
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  18. RegalStar
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    RegalStar Nightshadow

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    Assassinate deals more damage the longer you've been in Dark Sight beforehand. Normally you'd still want to get out of Dark Sight as soon as possible (because spamming Nate this way still yields higher DPM), but during cancels you can charge up Dark Sight for a bigger Nate when it wears off.
     
  19. OP
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    Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    - The SE-less change was to offset the alchemist changes, we wanted to do a trade off of buff + nerf

    - When Neckson released the paladin, they still balanced it around the average of all bosses and didn't have a lower damage by virtue they could do 150% damage more to elementally weak bosses like scar or targa. Based on that same line of reasoning, it would be unfair to balance Corsairs based on the maybe 4 or 5 bosses that don't result in you having to dismount. (The number of ones you should dismount for are definitely far larger - just to name a few Zak, Scar, Targa, Verga, Jiaoceng, Horntail, Toad, Papulatus, Pianus, and Pink Bean whenever it gets released)

    - Buccanner changes are definitely being worked on, as we're not entirely satisfied with its state currently, but due to its complex nature, it's not something we can just do the theoretical numbers for and understand the implications of the change. Since the scaling for when you get energy charge, when you turn super saiyan, when you can dodge an attack with your i-frame, which attacks you use, are all things that differ based on the circumstances :( But please note that this is definitely not the last round of skill changes! ^^
     
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  20. echung379
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    echung379 Brown Teddy

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    Yeah I'm maining a hero, and it feels like we're decent at everything but not near the top in anything. And honestly that's okay, but at least it would be nice to have a good party skill. I think if rage were buffed to 23-25 attack, that would at least give us a decent party buff that can't just be replaced by an npc-purchased cider.
     
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