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Information Anniversary Event 2021 Balance Changes [Explained]

Discussion in 'Update Notes' started by Nise, Jun 7, 2021.

  1. yogurtseller
    Offline

    yogurtseller Mixed Golem

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    Nov 28, 2017
    12:06 PM
    wholesomeABG
    Shadower
    the level 160 retired corsair club awaits you :yay:
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
  2. xadra
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    xadra Capt. Latanica

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    Jun 6, 2017
    Male
    3:06 AM
    Adra
    Paladin
    170
    Divide
    Wow just wow. Once again balance threads never fail to disappoint. If there's this much salt over losing 1wa as a NL, imagine if this guy was Paladin during last year's anniversary patch and lost ~25% of his dpm. We'd gain another hater on r/mapleservers
     
    • Funny Funny x 10
  3. Tango
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    Tango Horny Mushroom

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    7
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    Feb 27, 2018
    Male
    1:06 PM
    Chronicles
    Paladin
    160
    A random thought in my head makes me think this should be a Use Item / Scroll to upgrade a MoN, similar to the Horus' Eye in Magatia PQ where the Rock of Wisdom can upgrade HP/MP and STR/DEX/INT/LUK. This can be a cheaper and more efficient, yet grindy alternative compared to using a Chaos Scroll to upgrade a MoN.
    Could this be possible so it's not just a useless item that people will perceive it to be?
    Other than that, nice job on the balancing/changes. 10/10
     
    • Creative Creative x 5
  4. DellyCassey
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    DellyCassey Blue Snail

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    Jun 8, 2021
    12:06 PM
    This is such a failed comment.
     
  5. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    Mar 9, 2017
    12:06 PM
    Dostoevsky
    Dark Knight
    200
    Spirit
    Were the constant and consistent cancels in places like Horntail intended? If they were intentional shouldn't something like that have been in the balance notes, as they do have a much larger implication than wyvern summons. It seems like a rather large nerf to cleave in Horntail, considering certain cancel patterns repeating themselves could lead to either enforced single target on certain heads or an overabundance of arm/wing cleave.

    Honestly I just don't like how a class can become immediately unviable to play endgame with an unmarked change, as the only place Hero/DK are good now is cwkpq, everywhere else they're near the bottom of the list.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Creative Creative x 1
  6. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    8:06 PM
    Moderator Post
    It's in boss skill casting rework.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    12:06 PM
    Dostoevsky
    Dark Knight
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    Spirit
    Cancels aren't mentioned but it seems like a rather large balance change to cleave in Horntail. I'm just wondering if it was intentional or something that got overlooked in implementation. Before the patch I counted cancels in preheads and it came out to be an average of 1 cancel every ~80 seconds, but now it's closer to 1 cancel every 45-50 seconds.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    Moderator Post
    Cancels are also part of skills, and too get cast if the cooldown has run out.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. BananaPie
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    BananaPie Selkie Jr.

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    Dec 22, 2019
    Male
    7:06 PM
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Funny Funny x 6
  10. Gurk
    Online

    Gurk Nightshadow

    677
    447
    350
    Mar 9, 2020
    Male
    12:06 PM
    Gxrk
    Hero, Bishop, Marksman, Shadower, Buccaneer, Corsair
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    Mar 9, 2017
    12:06 PM
    Dostoevsky
    Dark Knight
    200
    Spirit
    I think we can all agree that at this point, if you want to go endgame then it's sort of just a waste of time to make anything other than a mage.

    With mages you can play dressup with your inferior fun classes at some future point
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  12. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    8:06 PM
    Moderator Post
    Create a new feedback thread if you have new suggestions for the post changes. I am just answering your post and how it was mentioned it wasn't in the patch notes when it was.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. SweetTreat
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    SweetTreat Slime

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    Nov 2, 2019
    12:06 PM
    I think you're missing the point of the negatives of the nerf. To sum it down from what I glanced over:

    - Damage is reduced 1wa, although not super significant.
    - Balanced Furies are priced around 40-80m currently. If you're going into a HT run (2 runs) and want to maximize your damage with a full set of stars (average 16 stars in my case), it'll cost a NL 640m mesos to purchase the stars.
    - Adding to the 2nd point, previously the way to go about maximizing damage was 1 set of MTK (average 150m) and 16-20 sets of Steelies (about 100k each)
    16 Balanced Furies will run you 640m
    1 MTK + 20 sets of Steelies will run you 152m
    - Steelies were 1,200 stars per set, Balanced Furies is 1,000 stars per set. Since I average 16 sets of stars (1MTK (1,400 stars) + 15 Steelies (1,200 stars), NLs will need to carry an additional 3 sets of Balanced Furies which adds an extra cost of 120m
    - If you miss your SS buff and end up with 197 stars, you lose the amount of stars you can throw before running out, in which case I've always brought in an additional 4 sets of stars (another 160m)

    You can go the cheaper alternative of purchasing Ilbis which are 27wa vs Balanced Furies that are 30wa, which runs around 3-5m, but then the damage gap between a NL+SE vs Corsair becomes even more narrower and Corsairs can potentially even out-damage NLs.

    I haven't really looked into the difference between a Corsair vs Nightlord, but pretty much with this patch I think it solidifies that Nightlords are extremely outclassed and too expensive to play anymore. Equipment for corsairs seem extremely cheaper than Nightlords and they don't need to rely on buffs to do consistently higher damage than Nightlords.
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. xadra
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    xadra Capt. Latanica

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    Jun 6, 2017
    Male
    3:06 AM
    Adra
    Paladin
    170
    Divide
    Even so I still have very little sympathy for this and will not call it a nerf, but a bugfix. All this means to me is that the ceiling for playing an optimal Nightlord is significantly higher and that NLs were simply making use of a bug so far to inflate their DPM45 to higher figures.

    Moreover I find the claims that corsair is now the better class to be knee-jerky. Yes corsairs will be cheaper to buy and scroll equipments for while also having a higher theoretical peak DPM.

    But from my perspective it takes infinitely more effort to play a corsair than an NL, which as we all know is designed to be the most one-button job along with heroes that can exist. Not to mention the pot costs you save by virtue of having shifter. Just on these 2 points alone, I wouldn't mind NLs being nerfed even further to levels below corsair- in my eyes game is balanced when classes that take most skill to play have highest rewards, while autoclick braindead jobs can get their proportional rewards (not that I want this to happen in ML- nightlords being extremely OP is a nostalgic hallmark of old maple).

    Corsairs don't need to rely on buffs but to reach their optimal DPS they still do need SE AND SI. The boost is not as much as NLs get from SE, but we were talking about sweaty optimization here. Lastly, of course we'll have to wait for someone to post new pog DPM charts (with suboptimal throwing stars) but I highly doubt -4wa changing from bugged-MTK to ilbi will bring NL DPM below corsairs in HT and PB, the most relevant bosses.

    Thus I really don't think NLs are in any way "outclassed" right now by Corsairs. Even if you deleted MTK and Furies from the game, the combination of speed, range, high avoid, and sheer DPS (-4wa) will still make them the best attacker class there is.

    You can now tell me how paladin HH "nerf" was just a fix on imbalanced mechanics that helped inflate DPM45 numbers and deserves very little sympathy too.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  15. TrueKebab
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    TrueKebab Pink Teddy

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    Jan 13, 2020
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    8:06 PM
    DancinPig, Jatizso, Neitiznot, HolyPig
    Dragon Knight, Priest, Shadower
    Galaxy
    I didn't read through the numerous pages on replies here, but I just want something clarified here. Previously it was 25 marbles each, alcadno and zenumist, for the pendant, so reducing it to 20 I'd assume this is 20 each marble, but I noticed after gaining my pendant, it only took 10 each which doesn't reduce the run count from '25 to 20' but more like 50 to 20 which feels like a SHARP drop. Is this correct?
    Same for the Rock of Wisdom, it was supposed to be 10 each, now only 5 of either?
     

    Attached Files:

    • Useful Useful x 2
  16. Cowbelle
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    Cowbelle Mushmom

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    Jul 11, 2020
    Female
    12:06 PM
    Cowbelle
    Beginner
    Homies
    Wanted to give some preliminary feedback on this after a couple days of the server being live with this change. Although I can't comment on the economic impact of this, it really is a nuisance (in my opinion) when it comes to daily life. This is all anecdotal obviously, but I would love to see data that is showing the positive effect of this change as it just seems like a band-aid to the actual problem at hand.

    a) Less mesos picked up in parties (anecdotally):
    I'm noticing even on small maps, mesos will usually expire instead of being picked up by party members after this change. Especially when sharing a map, the map is just constantly filled with mesos now even if all party members have pets.

    b) Hard to see/pick up items in PQs
    I'm assuming that when items on the ground are stacked, picking up goes in some queue like system. However due to all of the stacks on the ground, it can take more and more time to pick up items and is just cluttering the screen. This comes up in PPQ, for example, when trying to collect marks -- I found instead of just jumping around and grabbing marks as the leader, I would have to pause at every mark for longer than expected due to the amount of mesos "in my way".

    for both a and b, I coincidentally had screenshots from PPQ that can show the difference between the mesos on the ground before and after this change below:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    c) Broken-feeling/less GMS like.
    I'm not saying that everything needs to be exactly like GMS, but the experience just seems unintuitive. It seems as if the change is purposefully breaking the product in one area to fix a bug in another area. New players won't understand why they can't pick up mesos on the ground, and it will feel more bug-like than on purpose... not to mention seasoned players, if asked, will probably explain it to them in a less than positive way. It just feels extremely strange to downgrade the quality of life for all players to discourage sweeper mules (what is assumed that this change was targetting). If we could understand exactly why sweeper mules are considered unhealthy for the server, maybe a better solution could be proposed.
     
    • Agree Agree x 25
    • Informative Informative x 4
  17. Cheol
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    Cheol Mano

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    Dec 3, 2020
    Male
    Singapore
    3:06 AM
    Cheol
    I/L Arch Mage, Bishop, Bowmaster
    1
    Pawcifists
    Just… play the game…

    if you want to talk about avoidability/stance, just play bm/mm/corsair for a year and you wouldnt complain anymore :)

    Also requesting 69% shifter for the above mentioned class for balance #kidding
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  18. Gurk
    Online

    Gurk Nightshadow

    677
    447
    350
    Mar 9, 2020
    Male
    12:06 PM
    Gxrk
    Hero, Bishop, Marksman, Shadower, Buccaneer, Corsair
    d) nerf to shad utility in HT now that bishops can no longer pick up their hard-earned pp mesos #makeppgreatagain

    Onionsmh
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
  19. MeowOnward
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    MeowOnward Blue Snail

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    Jun 17, 2020
    Male
    3:06 PM
    Has anyone else been experiencing FPS lag from the sheer amount of mesos that are moving around that are not being looted?
     
    • Funny Funny x 7
  20. Caenyss
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    Caenyss Capt. Latanica

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    Jan 30, 2018
    Male
    Lisbon
    7:06 PM
    Caenyss
    Bowmaster
    177
    I mostly notice the relentless spam of "This item isn't available to pick up" (or something like that) from my poor pets trying their best to loot it. Poor souls.

    EDIT: upload_2021-6-16_22-29-34.png
     
    • Agree Agree x 2

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