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ARE WE REALLY BETTER WITHOUT Cash Gachapon?

Discussion in 'Rejected' started by Luiz GG, Feb 12, 2019.

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  1. Luiz GG
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    Luiz GG Slime

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    What started with a test now is an irrevocable fact. Since in view of the answers from the administration there is an absolute refusal on whether the GACHAPON CASH return. The low rate of fall of the Hgach in my opinion makes a hell for new players that I think will be forced or induced to create pj with high ease to clean maps and get the gachapon ... Now you can not see but soon certain objects will start to be scarce (especially scrolles) and it is there where those who control the FM (if those who have 100 stores of different mules) get richer for the stock they have, and make it more difficult to access the new ones to get scrolles for them to try their luck scrolling ... Why do not you ask the people who think, not everyone is in the forum ... if this was a test ... because you do not listen to alternative solutions such as increasing the price of cash gachapon or They are open to opinions that are not the same as always (which does not suit them), but all of us who play.
     
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  2. Konnui
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    Konnui Timer

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    are u the touchmystaff guy on another account just wondering

    and no. play the game.
     
  3. OP
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    Luiz GG
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    Luiz GG Slime

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    No im not that guy, and you're not Kimmy with those kind of phrases that say go and play?
     
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  4. Krauser94
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    Krauser94 Designer Staff Member Graphics Designer

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    Personal experience here:
    I have never bought cash gacha (i think once fro randomness) and never asked for money. Only own a shadower, not another useful char like a Mage, and i still have money. And if i have to say something related to this, is that ppl is ok with the removal of this gacha mostly because now they can basically wash 2 chars at once if they don't want to chose between 2 jobs they like.

    As a suggestion myself and for new players, and related to playing the game, if you take time to interact with ppl and do quests (this might be hard because not everyone likes them) you will find yourself with a good amount of gach tickets from time to time.

    And also related to quests, i think there is aguide on forums about good quests to do that give nice rewards that can be sold.

    As i said, this is just my personal opinion and i understand your point, but ppl is going to prefer to not get banned for vote abuse than just get a gacha where they might get a good reward OR most likely shitty scrolls. SlimeSweat2

    this is basically RNG, and the gacha tickets have been changed a lot with time. Trust me i have seen already quite some tweaks on it while playing, but if you got 100m in 1 week, that was a nice lucky shot, nothing i ever got tbh. (i got a white mop yday using some gacha tickets and im happy about it SlimeBlush)
     
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  5. Sucre
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    Sucre Zakum

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    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Sucre
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    Sucre Zakum

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    Aguante el ingenieri papa

    -- Watch out! He is an engineer, he must be right!
     
  7. JULLEISY
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    JULLEISY Red Snail

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    ???????

    do you have a problem with me?
     
  8. Sucre
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    Sucre Zakum

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    No, just saying it’s irrelevant to mention you are an engineer when you sign a post on an online game forum
     
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  9. JULLEISY
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    JULLEISY Red Snail

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    and it's my problem if I write it or not!
     
  10. OP
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    Luiz GG
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    Luiz GG Slime

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    The missions are not a continuous base of Scrolles, and nobody says the vote abuse is the correct thing but the normal vote, as in other servers you can sell AP reset or things like that. You can not compare the abilities of a bishop vs an archer lvl 50 to get some gachapon, this is a hard blow for new players and for the former those who have hundreds and hundreds of scrolls to their credit a total utopia
     
  11. nubjulez
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    nubjulez Skelosaurus Retired Staff

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    nubjulez / heartless
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    Is it time for a forum RIOT??? :^)
     
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  12. Nrii
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    Nrii Brown Teddy

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    And here I was thinking all fm prices were going DOWN, not up?

    Must've been my imagination
     
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  13. Siao
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    Siao Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    I hope this thread is not turning into another shit post where we receive no conducive feedbacks but circular jerking.

    Let me tell you what happen for most players; I'd say most people here in the past do not purchase cash gacha simply because honestly, cash gachapon's rewards were not attractive at all. There are many other ways to farm or earn for mesos. In early levels, people do quests, hunt mobs, npc the drops, do pqs (lmpq is a great way to farm for mesos, I earned 15mil from there no kidding). I believe Kimmy mentioned before plenty of times in other posts - vote2win/cash gacha is not coming back. Besides yourself and OP, we aren't hearing much negative feedback either. Removing this encourages players to actually play the game to farm for mesos, not just simply vote for days, buy plenty of cash gacha hoping to hit jackpot.

    So ye like what Konnui and Kimmy said, play the game.
     
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  14. Nrii
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    Nrii Brown Teddy

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    Tbf, and to play devil's advocate -
    There is a case to be made that low level players who PQ for their exp rather than grind are probably be getting less hunting gachapon compared to those who grind.
    It's almost another disincentive to do PQ's, as the rewards from PQ's might not be better than the rewards from grinding for hunting gachapon.

    However, that doesn't change the fact that the new system incentivizes playing the game, as the more you play, the more gach and thus meso you'll naturally earn
     
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  15. OP
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    Luiz GG
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    Luiz GG Slime

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    That is a coherent answer not only say "go play" ..... the price increases will not be seen today or tomorrow but then, you can generate mesos yes but what I try to say is that with this change it becomes less attractive to new users to have something, and casual users who do not have time to get something meaningful. I do not want those who are strong and manage the prices in the fm to become even more unattainable ... it seems to me a change more for evil than for good, only that they still do not see it
     
  16. OP
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    Luiz GG
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    Luiz GG Slime

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    [QUOTE = "Nrii, post: 176875, miembro: 13624"] Tbf, y para jugar al abogado del diablo -
    Hay un caso en el que los jugadores de bajo nivel que son PQ para su exp en lugar de grind están obteniendo menos gachapon de caza en comparación con aquellos que muelen.
    Es casi otro desincentivo para hacer PQ, ya que las recompensas de PQ no pueden ser mejores que las recompensas de moler por cazar gachapon.

    Sin embargo, eso no cambia el hecho de que el nuevo sistema incentiva el juego , ya que cuanto más juegues, más gach y así meso ganarás naturalmente [/ QUOTE]
    Bro and how do you think it is more efficient to do what you say? New ones will usually be induced to create a magician to maintain the economy and this would be closer to other servers where they are all magicians ...
     
  17. Precel
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    Precel Carbohydrates Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Ok, let's start with why gachapon was removed from the cash shop.
    Let's keep that in mind. MapleLegends is trying to move away from vote2win. Plus, removing gachapon allows current rules to changed in order for them to be more consistent. Specifically, the recent change of vote abuse rule. The reasons behind vote abuse rule changes are outlined here, but the relevant bit is this:

    In other words, it was unfair for general population while some people abused voting and gain advantages by buying beneficial items; gachapon being one of them.

    Now that we know the reasons behind the change, let's address your arguments.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    The test you are referring to is Christmas Gachapon update, where staffs wanted to test how it may work after the event ended. The Christmas Event lasted about 1 month or so, which I think is enough time to collect good data to make an informed decision.

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    1. Old School Maplestory was never about making the game easy. Everyone had difficult times and most players couldn't even afford 200 meso potion.
    2. MapleLegends, as far as I know, strive to keep the nostalgia factors while improving Quality of Life features. One of the nostalgia factors is the difficulty of the game. I mean, we have low rates for a reason. If you don't like difficulty, I recommend 1000x exp/mesos/drop server instead.
    3. Granted, staffs shouldn't keep the game hard just because it used to be that way. But MapleLegends' difficulty is already eased enough. There are guides for new players on how to make money, gachapons still drop from mobs, there is a charity for new players that give 400k mesos.
    4. You don't need mage mule to farm for gachas to get mesos. You can earn a lot of mesos with other classes farming. PQs drop scrolls that can fill your bank. Staffs constantly open seasonal events that drop items worth millions.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    1. You cannot see that certain objects will start to scarce either. You assume so because cash gachapon was removed, but you have no data on how much gachapon is dropping in the server and how that compares to the data before patch. Perhaps, we might have more supply now that gachapons are constantly dropping for hundreds of players. KimberlyKimberly said she can see how many people are using gachapon, so I hope she can provide some context here. The point is, you cannot predict the future of the server's economy at the moment.
    2. The people who control market is a separate issue here. That's been a problem even before the removal of gachapon. Sure, it may worsen if the prices get inflated (and I'm not only talking about due to gachapon), but the market control itself is a problem that should be resolved. Since the thread isn't about market control, I'll move on.
    3. Gachapon in cash shop was by no means popular. Many people, especially who played long enough to know HP washing, spent their cash on AP resets instead. Gachapon was not favorable since it never provided consistent income, and was heavily reliant on RNG. Due to this reason, I don't think we are going to have significant less scrolls because we don't have gachapon in cash shop.
    4. Also, consider following quote:
    The staffs are aware of potential economy change and they are planning on bringing other methods to balance the issue, presumably methods that are more focused on gameplay instead of voting every 24 hours. One example we see already are pet HP scrolls that drop from CWKPQ, which are also later added to gachapon.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    This discussion has been going on for a month, since the Christmas Event. It's also been vigorously talked about in Discord. If some players could not express their opinions, it's not like they can't register on forum or get on Discord.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Remember, the removal of gachapon was to get rid of vote2win. Increasing price of a gachapon does not solve that inherent issue. Can you think of a solution that keeps gachapon in the cash shop and still get rid of vote2win aspect, without affecting economy, address vote abuse rule, and make everyone happy?

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    I'm just goonna respond to this with 3 changes that happened within a week's span.

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    I'm not sure why you are comparing at least level 120 bishop versus level 50 archer. Of course you can't compare them.

    Are you trying to say experienced players get more gachapon so it's unfair? Of course older players will generate more income. They have skills that can kill multiple mobs with high damage.

    Are you trying to say Bishop is overpowered at farming? Then you are suggesting for nerfing bishop's farming power. Also, even if archer is underpowered at farming, it doesn't mean gachapon should be brought back. This is a class balance issue, not gachapon issue.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    I hope I covered all points. If you have a good suggestion that can solve all inherent issues, I'm sure staffs will consider it.

    EDIT: some formatting
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
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  18. Precel
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    Precel Carbohydrates Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    I agree, but that's more due to RNG factor. PQ rewards/Gachapon are both RNG so it's not very distinctive disadvantage.
     
  19. Precel
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    Precel Carbohydrates Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    New players are not most concerned about gachapon in cash shop. They are concerned about which job to choose and how to train. Plus, they'll be glad that they can use gachapon from level 1.

    I'm a casual player in university. Most time I was afk in FM because I was doing homework or something. You can still get enough meso to buy meaningful items if you farm even for 1 hour a day. MapleLegends is not idle game. Farm mobs and you'll get things.
     
  20. KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Windraider

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    I see no problem with the new method and I would say that I actually like it.
    Yes starting new is hard but we all have been there, me included and I was on the opening of the server, we had literally nothing, and back then gachapon was way worst having far less stuff to get from there (As a buccaneer didn't have any knuckle 30% for a looong time) also the only way to get tickets was by buying them from the cash shop. It is possible and it is hard and grindy but you will eventually get there, if you play casually will take longer but that makes sense, those who play the most will get far earlier. (at the end of the day maple is a very grindy game that is msotly fun cos you spend time with great ppl you will end up loving)
    If you see a guy with a million scrolls and a million mules that has nothing to do with how gachapon works, that guy managed to shape the market by marketing. He buys for cheap and sells for a higher price, eliminating a lot of existences and getting food spots gives him a higher chance of profiting out of this technique, he gets some stuff from gachapon for sure like all of us do but he got that far by marketing and spending time doing that instead of bossing or grinding so the gachapon system is good. (Only definitive way to fix maple economy is with communism )
    [​IMG]
     
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