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Axe Stab Buff?

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by helpme123, Nov 27, 2023.

What change would you like to see towards axe swing/stab mechanics?

  1. Increase the lower limit to make it even!

    1 vote(s)
    6.3%
  2. Increase the range per Tarnished's suggestion!

    14 vote(s)
    87.5%
  3. Just make it 1/1 like sword!

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. None! It's fine as is!

    1 vote(s)
    6.3%
  1. helpme123
    Offline

    helpme123 Blue Snail

    4
    3
    3
    Nov 27, 2023
    3:46 AM
    Everyone who's looked into Heroes knows that axes are basically just worse swords. There are multiple reasons for this, but a key one is the slash/stab differential. I've seen slightly varying numbers, but it essentially boils down to swords doing 1/1 damage on a slash/stab, while axes do something like 1.2/.7, which means on balance axes will do less damage with all other stats being equal. If we could buff the stab damage to be .8, or whatever the equivalent counter to the buffed slash damage is, axes would still not be the meta but at least it would be less of a clear-cut "wrong" choice.

    I know this has been a known and discussed feature in the community for a while so I'm sure there's a fair reason it hasn't been changed up to this point, but I searched through the rejected and impossible suggestion subforums and didn't see anything relating to this so I thought I'd post one. Worst case scenario, this post will hopefully be easy to find for anybody wondering about this issue and the related debate in the future.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. Tarnished
    Offline

    Tarnished Mixed Golem

    169
    86
    173
    Jun 13, 2022
    Male
    3:46 AM
    Confessor, Tarnished, Hawthorn
    Hero
    188
    I've often thought the opposite would be cool - Axe could actually be useful if the difference between the slash/stab was further exaggerated to like 1.8/0.2 or something

    The DPM can remain lower than Sword, but the higher line from axe slash would let hero pin bosses they normally can't
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Creative Creative x 3
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. Lin
    Online

    Lin Headless Horseman

    758
    855
    386
    Feb 27, 2017
    Male
    Singapore
    7:46 PM
    Linny,BangHero,Carbide
    Paladin
    200
    Bonk
    Like a 50k and 10k kind of brandish... that's intriguing. I'd like that than more stable 30ks actually, assuming I can even hit 30k lines.
     
  4. OP
    OP
    helpme123
    Offline

    helpme123 Blue Snail

    4
    3
    3
    Nov 27, 2023
    3:46 AM
    That actually sounds pretty cool. I'm not sure how exaggerated people would want to get with it, but even like 1.5 and .5 would make for fun possibilities. The only possible complaints that are apparent to me (admittedly not a very experienced player) would be people considering it too custom or not wanting to risk the element of chance that might bring to their boss run.
     
  5. OP
    OP
    helpme123
    Offline

    helpme123 Blue Snail

    4
    3
    3
    Nov 27, 2023
    3:46 AM
    Added a poll to gauge interest in possible changes. I'm curious to see what the community as a whole thinks about it.
     
  6. JKNS
    Offline

    JKNS Selkie Jr.

    203
    65
    215
    Sep 21, 2020
    5:46 AM
    Hero, Dark Knight, F/P Arch Mage, I/L Arch Mage, Bishop, Night Lord
    Probably can’t be even ratios on slash and stab now with Panic changes since Axe is then (usually) strictly better outside of pure Brandish scenarios and we’re having this same discussion, just flipped (for Normal speed anyway). The extreme multiplier (something similar to 5.0 vs. 3.0 that DrK has, to a more extreme level) could be the way to go. Could also add passive Crit or something similar to the 20th point of Axe Mastery in the same way we added 5% Mastery for Bucc ST (I believe modern adds base damage and 1 level of Weapon Speed, so there are options beyond just Crit or extra Mastery).
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  7. OP
    OP
    helpme123
    Offline

    helpme123 Blue Snail

    4
    3
    3
    Nov 27, 2023
    3:46 AM
    That's an interesting point, and if we didn't want to mess with the slash/stab formula for one reason or another then putting a bonus at 20th level of axe mastery could be enough. A 5% crit chance for double damage would effectively translate to a 5% overall DPM buff and occasional pins. If we were going down that path, we could potentially do something similar for Pallys with BWs except with +1 weapon speed instead. This would put 1h BWs on more equal footing with swords and give 2h BWs a chance at viability.
     
  8. JKNS
    Offline

    JKNS Selkie Jr.

    203
    65
    215
    Sep 21, 2020
    5:46 AM
    Hero, Dark Knight, F/P Arch Mage, I/L Arch Mage, Bishop, Night Lord
    Base Crit also explosively improves SE, which is a buff that is marginal on Hero and Paladin currently but could result in significant DPM improvements limited to just those weapons.
     

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