Boss Freeze Abuse - 1st Offense should be Warning

Divorce him/her and marry me

 

Hi -- I'm definitely not trying to start fights or anything but I was one of the people in the LPQ and I think just saying "you should just KNOW" is really unhelpful. It's obviously not common sense; if it was I would have absolutely left the party and there wouldn't have been such a public outcry afterwards (because assumedly other people also see this as a not obvious situation). It may feel really obvious to you as someone who seems to have a lot of knowledge about the game, but as someone who hasn't visited the game in 10 years or more, it is not clear. It's a bummer that you are assuming that we were nefariously and calculatedly doing something when in reality i was just completely unaware.

To be honest when we got banned I hadn't even comprehended that alistar wasn't hitting anyone -- the first 3 runs of my night it took around 10 minutes to kill alistar. I don't really know the patterns of alistar's attack but i assume he spawns chronos at a certain percentage -- so him not spawning monsters at the 3 minute mark or whatever it was isn't alarming to me; it was taking us forever to even get to that point before. And to top it all off, my teeny brain is running on all cylinders tryna matrix my body to not touch alistar since I insta-die. I thought I was on x games mode but now I just realize nothing was happening at all!

I did have someone in a party explain to me what was bannable a day before -- except he thought the bannable offense was hitting alistar from behind for an extended period of time. Although anecdotal, i think this shows that the people who "know the rule" don't even know the rule. Furthermore, there are even a bunch of people in the LPQ explaining how to lure because they think they are being helpful. even in the earlier stages when the 2 players were discussing it i thought they were just being genuinely nice so our low level hp players [aka me lol] didn't die. i feel quite embarrassed that it could have been their good will towards me that got them banned, because it seems like they didn't know what they were doing was wrong. i may just be assuming good faith but people on maplelegends have been quite nice and i wouldn't have any reason to assume they were trying to beat the system.

anyways, i've probably verbal vomited out a bunch of not helpful feelings but i do hope that somehow this becomes more clear. i don't think you should have to research on forums and dig within the ToS in order to play this game -- but i know that this is obviously a tough problem to solve so i do not envy the admins having to figure this out. thank you to the admins who responded in this thread and to our requests last night and i'm sorry to have contributed to such a commotion!

 

I definitely would challenge the claim that any of this is "common sense", especially for the first time a boss *can* be fought in such a way. It's not too far of a stretch to consider luring one of the few tactical decisions the game has to offer, its just been ingrained that we are supposed to let the boss hit us to make it a fair fight. Bosses like nameless or ravana are generally fought using a pin so it cant attack people it would otherwise 1-shot. While the game would be much worse off if that were considered abuse, iirc a true pin on ravana doesnt allow it to attack at all, and technically could fall under aggro abuse. Where is the line between tactically working with the game's mechanics (HH cant attack if you dont let it get close to you), and abuse (alishar cant attack if you dont let it get close to you)?

 

tbh..im not a newbie player..but i still dunno why/how the bosses get freezed
some of the pt members will say: nice bug
some will ask: izit ban-able..?

conclusion: pls dun ban me.. (no sarcasm)..

 

I agree with this on a spiritual level.

 

Just send in an @GM and if no GM responds you can still kill it like Kimmy said.

 

This seems like such a stupid thing having to police. I agree with akashsky. Just make it so you cant do it. Give the boss a full map attack or whatever.

 

A 7 day ban is a full on punishment lol, you obviously know what she's talking about so what's the point of this reply it adds nothing to the discussion.

 

Its not

supposed to be in the game, its a bug/glitch.. therefore NOT an ingame mechanic.

 

the first ban is the warning xd

 

It adds all meaning to the discussion, whats the topic LPQ boss Alishar not attacking make first offense a WARNING. The warning is in the ToS, if the person didn't read the rules thats their fault for not doing so. A warning was already issued, the player chose to not read that warning, Terms of Service, ignore them get punished. Its that simple.

If this 'Already in the ToS rule is being complained about' then what about the bad timing in 'Mapownership' your 5 mins are up you're attacking a mini-boss (Mano) you don't kill a snail to refresh your ownership YET a noob changes into your channel as the mini-boss (Mano) is half HP that noob kills a few snails before even seeing the mass HP bar at the top of the screen indicating that the mini-boss (Mano)'s HP is half or about half and they report the actual owner of the map as 'KS abuse' while that person is HP washing so it takes them about 2 hits to kill a green snail, 3 hits to kill a blue snail and 4 hits to kill a red snail, seem fair to get a ban for "Map Ownership abuse" ? If this here is a complete issue while a rule of that in stated in the ToS states and I quote(A1)(A2)

(A1)

"2.11 Boss Freeze Abuse - Any form of abuse that intentionally causes monsters in boss maps to stop using abilities or attacking is forbidden. This includes, but not limited to: positioning a character in a certain area of the map or using the death of a character to purposefully cause the boss or other surrounding mobs to freeze and/or no longer seek to attack an active player. Examples would include: Elder Wraiths in Big Foot maps being frozen; Nibergen not attacking (damage being done by clouds only); or Alishar not using any magic attacks. 1st Offense: 7 day ban; 2nd Offense: Account Ban

*If the abuse is done in a group activity, everyone in that group will automatically be held accountable."

Isn't this already stated as a warning? true or false.


Below is banter about Map Ownership rule read if you want
If this here about map ownership is a complete issue while a rule of that in stated in the ToS states and I quote

(A2)

"3.4 Griefing - Griefing is a more specific case of harassment, which can be classified as in-game conduct that is intended to disrupt/sabotage another player's gameplay. Examples of griefing include the following but are not limited to: kill stealing from mapowner, looting in another player's map (including Monster Book Cards, which is owned by mapowner), intentionally causing someone's death, filling an FM store with mules so other player's cannot access it, PQ sabotage, and scamming boss drop/cards in PQs or any other group activity.

For griefing claims related to mapowner, they will be settled by using the @mapowner command, which displays who owns the map. For cases of area bosses that do not have killable mobs (eg. JrBalrog), the first one who entered the map will have pseudo-mapowner and has the right to ask other players to CC. This is proven by a screenshot with the @servertime command used. All requirements of being a mapowner are also required to obtain pseudo-mapowner, meaning one must be at least 10 levels below the strongest monster's level in the map and not have been AFK for 5 minutes or longer.

All claims will be reviewed based on presented evidence and whether or not the actions had malicious intent. Depending on the severity of the actions, the punishments may vary, with the possibility of warnings given out for lighter offenses. 1st Offense: 3 Day Ban; 2nd Offense: 7 Day Ban; 3rd Offense: Account Ban."

Which above was changed removing pseudo-mapowner which I will state and quote below
"After Change
Griefing is a more specific case of harassment, which can be classified as in-game conduct that is intended to disrupt/sabotage another player's gameplay. Examples of griefing include the following but are not limited to: kill stealing from mapowner, looting in another player's map (including Monster Book Cards, which is owned by mapowner), intentionally causing someone's death, filling an FM store with mules so other player's cannot access it, PQ sabotage, and scamming boss drop/cards in PQs or any other group activity.

For griefing claims related to mapowner, they will be settled by using the @mapowner command, which displays who owns the map. For cases of area bosses that do not have killable mobs (eg. JrBalrog), the first one who entered the map will have pseudo-mapowner and has the right to ask other players to CC. This is proven by a screenshot with the @servertime command used. All requirements of being a mapowner are also required to obtain pseudo-mapowner, meaning one must be at least 10 levels below the strongest monster's level in the map and not have been AFK for 5 minutes or longer.

All claims will be reviewed based on presented evidence and whether or not the actions had malicious intent. Depending on the severity of the actions, the punishments may vary, with the possibility of warnings given out for lighter offenses. 1st Offense: 3 Day Ban; 2nd Offense: 7 Day Ban; 3rd Offense: Account Ban."

If the person that broke said rule for Map Ownership (Me, being the Mano killer in my own map in which the time reset I had to kill a snail to re-claim map ownership) I wouldn't have gotten banned for 3 days killing my own Mano- - refreshed map that could be taken because I didn't refresh the map to make me owner again, is that fair too?

Again for this case, if I kill a Mano in which ANOTHER player took 'Map ownership' Yes. Did I kill and loot the mini-boss Mano's drops? Yes. (was mine at first) But a noob went in and claimed that ownership did I know that I lost the ownership? No, Did I complain when I got 3 day banned? No, I took it and understood it. (I now bind macro in game as shown below) But I guess you could count this as complaining? as in now.. but w/e it is what it is.



(Lucky7/Haste for my Assassin that I'm HP washing)

Should I have to worry about this if Map ownership was updated to something in the lines of @mapblock (I will try to get a Gyazo gif or a video of this if possible.. I was perm banned in a different server for memeing.. would have to ask a friend to either create gif or make a video on it and send me it to show how it is but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)

 

Quit trying to make mapblock a thing. This isnt a mapowner thread. Go back to your home.

This argument isnt even about the legal justification of users being banned for "nOt ReAdInG Le tErMs oF sErViCe" in lpq, its an ethical argument about immediately jumping to ban them for messing up what is (in my personal, and others, opinion) a very confusing rule with many loopholes that is a bandaid fix for issues with coding.

 

Was in a middle of typing up a storm before reading this, so I'll bold out certain areas in your post to better understand.

1st Bold Purple/Mint Text> Yes, I do read every ToS and/or rule from everything I sign up for, even with Twitch's new ToS to having copyrighted music.

2nd Bold Purple/Mint Text> Pinned - hold someone firmly in a specified position so they are unable to move.
Thats what a pin is, so therefore doesn't count as "abuse" you're using a move to not make monster attack. the Abuse is here doesn't contain pins to Alishar nor other monsters, when the glitch is performed someone goes AFK on one side of the map after hitting the monster thus 'mind-blowing' the monster while others are attacking it, the monster would attack the ones attacking it but wouldn't attack because that player is missing that first attacked it. An example would be in the ToS itself under Boss Freeze Abuse.
AND I'll quote it so that I can bold it out.

"2.11 Boss Freeze Abuse - Any form of abuse that intentionally causes monsters in boss maps to stop using abilities or attacking is forbidden. This includes, but not limited to: positioning a character in a certain area of the map or using the death of a character to purposefully cause the boss or other surrounding mobs to freeze and/or no longer seek to attack an active player. Examples would include: Elder Wraiths in Big Foot maps being frozen; Nibergen not attacking (damage being done by clouds only); or Alishar not using any magic attacks. 1st Offense: 7 day ban; 2nd Offense: Account Ban

*If the abuse is done in a group activity, everyone in that group will automatically be held accountable."

wait, too smol couldn't read positioning a character in a certain area of the map or using the death of a character to purposefully cause the boss or other surrounding mobs to freeze and/or no longer seek to attack an active player. There is no pinning here involved, is there?



3rd Bold Purple/Mint Text> No, you don't because you're over here saying that should be a warning instead of a ban. The warning is in the ToS itself, thats what makes a ToS, a ToS.

(Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terms_of_service) ?
Terms of service (also known as terms of use and terms and conditions, commonly abbreviated as TOS or ToS, ToU or T&C) are the legal agreements between a service provider and a person who wants to use that service. The person must agree to abide by the terms of service in order to use the offered service. Terms of service can also be merely a disclaimer, especially regarding the use of websites.

That being said, please enjoy your stay and of course by all means, have fun in game.

 

1st Mint > I'm not, I'm stating what happened with my ban when I got banned and I didn't actually complain when I got banned because of what ToS said, I didn't provide evidence towards "Map ownership" thus resulted in me getting banned for 3 days.

2nd Purple > You're right.

Bold > I am home, where else would I be? Theres still corona over where I live but okay I guess. I'll go back home.

Red > If you have any issues with 'loopholes' go talk with Precel they were looking for any loopholes in ToS a few days or so ago so should let him know if any!


EDIT: Forgot to mention where to contact so here you go!

https://discord.gg/MapleLegends in the #Support channel, hope you find all loophole issues to get sorted out and fixed in your favour!

 

It should be made so if a party in lpq gets caught freezing alishar they get thrown into a gm fitness and they all have to race eachother to not get banned. Survival of the fittest.

 

Oh.. thats how its done.. no more for color coded text

To start off, I would like to apologize for coming off as a prick in my previous posts in this thread as that was never my intention. I also want to mention English isn't my first language, so this is why my posts previously may not have been communicated well.

What I'm saying is... after chatting with Waeri, in the lines of her thoughts on the matter, I now understand that while I may be one to always read the ToS, there are lots of people who aren't like me and who don't read the ToS before playing a game...and thus something like this instance (something silly like getting banned for an entire week ban for abusing a bug they weren't aware was a bug) could easily happen to anyone, especially new players and it shouldn't really be considered intentionally doing the bug on purpose...because...well, frankly, like the girl who was the victim and posted here said, it wasn't intentional.

With that said, just so that people know I don't mean to come off like a prick (even though I can say I had said some of what I said because I too was upset about my own experience with ToS violation), when I usually go to the main website to vote and a streamer is doing LPQ and bugging the boss, I would typically go to the their chat and let them know the rule so that they don't get punished for it. You can ask whatscracklyn on discord as proof as I helped them out with it. They're in the discord but use the name RainySoftnyx when doing so, so they dunno my forums name XD lol).

In the end, I'd like to apologize one last time and have shifted my viewpoint on this thread and believe the punishment may be a bit harsh especially for newer players who may not be familiar with the bosses of this game and what they should/should not do. My suggestion is having the punishment changed to something like:

1st Offense: Warning/1 Day Ban; 2nd Offense: 3 Day Ban; 3rd Offense: 7 Day Ban.
(This is actually from line 2.13 spamming clause with smegas)

No, no you're good if anyone verbally vomited I did. I just gathered up bodies of text and hurled over what was a serious thread.. hopefully with everything here at the end gets resolved and less harsher punishments gets updated on this.

I shouldn't have memed so hard, if and when your ban gets lifted or passed please do continue to play the game.
If you or some friends need Holy Symbol(HS) let me know. (you can leech, for free. I'm not a bishop yet so can't spam Genesis so it would be rather slow.)

My apologies once again.
Kind Regards, DuckTales.




EDIT: please don't like this post, I don't deserve it. I was rude and toxic.

 

A 7-day ban to new players who probably haven't even spent 7 days playing the server seems very harsh...

I feel like there should be an easily accessible thread, with a detailed list of all boss freeze/aggro abuse "bugs" in the game that's linked in the ToS, to help spread awareness for those who do their due diligence in reading the ToS. Making it a command on Discord could also help as well. This way, you can also link the thread to those who are warned for any boss freeze/aggro abuse.

 

Since I'm being mentioned... if you find any loopholes to the ToS, it's better to make a post on forum under Suggestions, like this post, than on #support. In fact, this thread is a good example of it where users find an issue in ToS and bringing up to the staffs.

 

So can we implement the gm fitness , sounds really fun and it should encourage more people to break the rule