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Bring back the nostalgia /stop the loss of players /hp washing - the solution

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Magen, Dec 6, 2021.

  1. robert8
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    robert8 Mushmom

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    9:13 AM
    Robert8
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    I started as a luk mage as old school as possible but gained so much nx as my main cahracter, everyones else was washed so I started to wash... I still done the quests and done the PQ's but yes they are quiet but your no going to get the player base to be able to be proper old school. 'LOOKING FOR PQ GOT TRACK'. I would love for it to be back like that but it wil be impossible no matter what.

    As for washing, withough washing there will be hardly any voting which means the server dies over the first hurdle..
     
  2. Mellona
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    Mellona Mano

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    5:13 AM
    Mellone
    Beginner
    I really like the idea of increasing reasons to pq. Pq was great when I started I still want to make a mule to lpq here and there.
    A great way to really push this so old players continue to populate pq maps is an increase in nx drops. If there’s enough nx dropping ppl who want to fasten their washing time will make mules to pq. 500 nx per run is not a big enough incentive to mule lpq, however if all a sudden you’re getting 1-2k per run this is something I would spam for nx.
     
  3. Ainz
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    Ainz Zakum

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    So many I keep forgetting
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    This would be disgustingly overpowered lmao
     
  4. zeroxlr
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    zeroxlr Windraider

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    2:13 AM
    xxxxSnuggles
    Beginner, Camper, Islander
    When i first started on this server in Oct2020, i thought i knew what character to play.

    After getting to level 30 ish with a thief and reading guides… I immediately felt like i wasnt able to climb higher anymore, since i knew nothing about washing. (I trashed multiple characters since it felt like i kept messing up stat builds)

    I started playing beginner, islander, then camper instead while pestering all the older players on discord about how to wash and more insights of ML meta.

    2-3 months ago I finally decided to play BishopStory, and now at level 121, i thought i could make an attacker finally!

    I thought i could make a NL/CB/Bucc… but after annoying and bugging more older players about how to make attackers… I realized I didnt have enough Accounts with Vote Cash stored up.

    So… I’m just waiting, and making SE/SI/MU/HS mules and Voting everyday… while I save up more vote cash to self leech an attacker.

    Somedays i just get super burnt out from making mules and voting… so I play on my islander/camper instead.
     
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  5. zeroxlr
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    zeroxlr Windraider

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    Beginner, Camper, Islander
    i also want to add that it was rather empty the last 2-3 months when i was playing BishopStory.

    I had to keep grinding out levels solo at designated farming places using only cheapest gears i can find on FM. I grounded solo all the way up to gs2 then bought leech at WS. I was fortunate enough to be picked up by a guild!!

    note: for my 1st leech purchase i was almost scammed for WS package from 75-80 for 23m lol… from a person that later left the guild. They didnt have HS, and had only an Arch Mage. I had to ask other guildies and pros on discord to make sure.

    But most guildies wasnt able to party with me since they were higher level. I just put in more hours to get to their level ranges for party grinding. So then I mostly soloed gallos til 105. Finding parties for cd/himes was sometimes tough but kind of okay 2-3 times per week, then leeched at Petri/Skeles/Big Foot to 120 with the help of guildies.

    Note: most people at CDs were leeching, or didnt want a weak priest with low level Shining Ray, not until i got to 95-100ish did i max SR and was a little more effective grinding CDs.

    I did try PQs… but leveled up slower or didnt have enough people. The rewards were not that great, other than Pirate Chair from PiratePQ lol
     
  6. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    5:13 PM
    LF>days when MP3 was full every cc.
     
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  7. Discor
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    Discor Slimy

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    11:13 AM
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    IDK, i have a friend who joined the server not long ago, his starter is a thief, and after explaining to him the whole dexless meta and how washing works his answer was " i don't care".
    now he plays a normal bandit with dex double his lvl and his having a blast. according to him killing 8 specific bosses at end game is not what this game is about. so from my point of view the problem of washing is not "not being able to boss some bosses(especially now when bossing gives you poverty wages)" but rather the fear of missing out on something, something which might not be fun or something you will not achieve anyway, but that fear grips you and worsens the whole experience.

    in my personals opinion the washing/leeching/mage farms problems are just symptoms of the actual issue, and i believe that the culprit is MULTICLIENTING !
    everything goes back to it:
    1) the mage farms, 1 person earning tens of millions an hour is achivable only tnx to this. some guy has 8 mages farming ulu at the same time
    2) all leachers use mules for buffs instead of inviting other people for the buffs.
    3) people do not make partys because most people have mules for the buffs.
    4) some classes which are meant for party play become useless because most people have mules for the buffs.

    i had so many vexing moments because of people with mules hoging bosses/training maps (i think there was even a time some people sold good maps because of broken @mappowner mechanic).

    paladins got nurfed to hell because people were making hords of them for HT.

    mages drop rate gets nurfed because 1 guy with 2 mages on the same computer can destroy the whole map and farm excessively.

    and i am sure there are so much more examples of how multiclienting destroyed the economy and party play in the server.
     
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  8. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    While I can understand, I don't see multiclienting as the actual issue, but rather the catalyst itself.
    The real issue imo is, well... the design of the game itself - battling against non-players with a very defined cap (and how grinding is boring to quite a number of people, hence bossing is the only content)

    Everyone wants to become better - wash more HP, get higher DPS, make the perfect weapon, have more mules, etc etc etc..
    Well, just look at the worst class. Last year, Hero is known as the most balanced class and this year its known as the worst class despite most class not receiving any significant buffs. Simply cause he sucks at contributing in PB (not my opinion, but this forum's)
    Most sweaty players are trying to reach the endgame at the fastest way possible, and kill PB/HT as efficiently as possible. Leeching & muling happens to be meta, aka the current known most efficient way.
    Taking out leeching won't solve the issue imo, it will only slow it down. People will still disregard 1st-3rd job, and only view bossing as actual content.
     
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  9. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    1st-3rd job as played content is nothing to be scoffed at. The problem is most people don't have experience with it at all since this server heavily promotes other paths.

    How many current end-game Nightlords in this server do you think have gone without equipping a single claw until level 140+?
     
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  10. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    170 and still holding a maple claw kek
     
  11. Discor
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    Discor Slimy

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    sounds so FUN ! you must be having the time of your life LOL
     
  12. Discor
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    Discor Slimy

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    I wonder how many of those new player with extrem goals (NL 30k HP for example) actually manage to get there and not quit their lvl 110 NL with 400 int and a need of 2 years of voting?

    I can't speak only about my self, and for me the path from 1st to 3rd job is basically the game, after lvl 14x ish the game becomes a grind for the extremely bored or the clinically insane ( of course i mean new 1 character kind of player, not someone who already has tons of funds and mules and plays since 201x). i play since 2018 and my main is lvl 160 now and i strongly believe that i will never reach the 18X.

    P.S i finished all available quests except N/T and PB, and most bosses at around lvl 140.
    p.s.s these days i started over with a new char(on the same client, to avoid temptation of leeching myself) a Page, and i have a blast mostly PQing with my friend and random available ppl.
     
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  13. zeroxlr
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    zeroxlr Windraider

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    xxxxSnuggles
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    disabled_meme.png

    all jokes aside, i love ML, even if there are things i wish could be improved.

    tbh my programming kungfu isn't that good, otherwise i'd try for a volunteer position to help out... or not, since i'm not good at helping out lol
     
  14. Eldric
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    Eldric Slime

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    Your heart is in the right place about the difficulties of low levels with high base int and how that makes more casual gamers quit very early on without ever really enjoying the game in its entirety. My only qualm is that your solution is wayyyy too convoluted, making it difficult to implement and understand (when some people have a hard time even understanding the entire MP/HP washing mechanic).

    An alternative solution

    Give low level players a stat ring (something similar to t10) that helps to offset their int and scales with their level. This ring will only lasts up till a certain level to be determined, when they can decently grind even with some int. However, this ring should not be so OP that it allows players to take on mobs way above their level or help them get 30k HP easily (in other words, absurdly high hp should still be a challenge).

    Advantages of the solution :
    - Helps low level players grind better and maybe rely on leech a little less
    - Solves the problem of high base int -> low attack
    - Has 0 impact on end game imo
    - Does not negate the effort that older players have put in to wash (you still need to wait a long time to gain NX to wash)

    I know this solution probably has been suggested before but I would be open to all criticisms/feedback on this.
     
  15. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    NoraONE
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    (just to clarify) Mage drop rates haven't been nerfed, it drops the same way it does for every other class
     
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  16. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    How about Quest Ring? I know it will instantly benefit some ppl (who have played the game in the nostalgia manner but aint we encouraging that?) but it will not immediately benefit a lvl 170NL that has been hanging on ropes for 24mths LOL.
     
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  17. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    I play a lvl 169 hero and didn't buy leech (only had like 3-4 leeched levels from friends during lvl 70 or 90, can't remember) and heavily insisted on not making a single mage because I don't enjoy the class.
    Hence, I agree with you.

    The main problem is, everyone just wants to rush to end game, in the most efficient way possible. Leeching is more efficient then grinding now, despite subjectively more boring, but everyone (majority) still does it anyways. Hence, you can expect most people to leech. If grinding is more efficient then leeching, then everyone will grind. Its the same reason why high level bishop sells leech to high level int lords and uses that meso to buy leech from a low level bishop for their low level int lords.

    Its the game design. Its not about the process, its about the end goal. Everyone (majority) here is either a wannabe, or a real sigma, and most here only enjoy the game by seeing results regardless the method, and not the process of getting it.
     
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  18. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    for self-actualization and transcendence :D
     
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  19. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    Quite alot of people who have HT/PB ready characters, which imo is the majority here in this forum, still try, not with 400 int ofc but with 300+ int, lots of double wash and 2+ years of NX saved, aimming for that sweet 23k base HP on their ranged characters.

    I guess its the opposite for me. Lvl 1 to 120 has always been a grind for me, since a lot felt like solo play. Exceptions are LPQ and EPQ, but even those two can be tough to find a party. Other PQs felt mostly dead (need hours of camping to get a run), and most of the party grinds in GS2, CDs etc have near 0 social interaction, even tho I'm to be blamed for it.

    I did a journal to make a paladin, current lvl 73 and its all solo play. Having going through the same thing twice, my opinion still stays the same - its a big grind for me.

    Bossing on the other hand, I find it easier to get friends and guild to participate a casual run, making it more meaningful for me. Ofc its just my opinion, but yeahh.
     
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  20. Myungsoo
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    Myungsoo Slimy

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    It baffles me that the majority seems to think that PQ / Washing has anything to do with the popularity of the server. A server has to feel packed, stable, rich of content & a good progression curve. But right now, Legends is kind of stale at the later levels and (it feels) like the excitement for a lot of players isn't there anymore since there are already so many 175+ characters. I've asked people why they quit, and it's for this exact reason. If there's anything that Legend should fix, it's the end game content / progression curve. Not HP washing or PQ's.
     
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