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Buff HB?

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by skywratih24, May 3, 2024.

  1. Tarnished

    Tarnished Selkie Jr.

    Jun 13, 2022
    3:16 PM
    Confessor, Tarnished, Hawthorn
    I like Active Zerk as a concept, I think it could use some QoL refinements though

    Zerk Wish-list:
    • Re-cast Zerk to toggle off (instead of right clicking the icon); maybe even refund some of the duration
    • Remove the animation time, and allow Zerk to be cast even if you're already in middle of an attack. ML has the technology, we added it to Shadow Stars
    • Do something about the pot situation. DK needs 3 buttons just for HP pots, in a game where other classes basically have 3 buttons total
    Last edited: May 7, 2024
  2. iPippy

    iPippy Nightshadow

    May 19, 2019
    6:16 PM
    I cannot say I share this sentiment, at least not in the context of the game as a whole. It's a change that was made with class fantasy first, feasibility second and dk wasn't given the tools needed to enable such a style. For every other class in the game, health is a binary resource where the question of "will survive/"wont survive" the next attack or two is solved by simply washing to a threshold and potting to full in the worst case (and almost always done by pet, not even the player!). This allows every other class, including the other warriors, to maximize their output by more or less holding dpm button and reacting to the few attacks that actually matter: dps/seds/drs.

    How does the dk maximize its output? By being under 3k hp in addition to everything else (or the 30 seconds of active zerk which we agree is jank in practice). Compared to the pre-scaling zerk%, a dk could rest easier knowing they only had to keep their hp at or below 16.5k for a 55% zerk. While we can say that technically hasnt changed under scaling zerk, the player mentality inevitably shifts to one of needing to do better by playing at the lowest hp. Otherwise the 16.5k dk will feel like theyre leaving 10% of their dmg on the table. The closest we have to this design is sairs attempting to maximize boat time by mitigating the boat damage they take. But they actually have tools to do this by attacking from long range, having an actual avoid score, or quickly dismounting and remounting in anticipation of a big attack. And even then, the sair's penalty for greed is rarely death.

    Against a boss like zak I can see the dk kit working. Stationary boss, combined with essentially one weak+telegraphed attack to react to makes it fairly trivial to max zerk, and it probably feels good too. But the reality is that doesn't translate in general as many fights boss have:
    • Mobile bosses or somewhat frequent repositioning
    • More things to react to- dp/dr/sed/status spam (most classes deal with these first two but that's kind of the extent of what they need to do)
    • More attacks at different damage values. You may have to be ready for both a 3k and 8k attack, for random example.
    • Variation in damage ranges. That 8k attack might actually high roll to almost 9k. Hope you prepared accordingly.
    • Attacks which cannot be reasonably reacted to. If auf wants to gen, you can't prepare and just have to just take it.
    Many of these are in addition to the requirements to play other classes, and many bosses just dont allow for sufficiently low hp play. Additonally, the best classes in this game like nl/bucc/archers have kits allowing them to generally find success in almost any content/boss design, rather than having a small niche of content. Essentially, while the dk kit can work for targeted content like zak, they lack the tools to effectively control their hp in general (roar/sacrifice/walking into enemies), and then instead of increasing their effective durability, reduced it by dangling the carrot-on-a-stick with scaling zerk, creating the higher-risk low-reward class we know today.

    The scaling % up to the standard zerk value is nice, but it should have stopped there. Balance Team has shown they do not have the tools and/or inspiration to design a solution capable of incorporating scaling zerk in the wider game. At least not without making luk dk pop off even harder than it does.
    • Agree Agree x 6
  3. Tommygunner

    Tommygunner Slimy

    Oct 29, 2020
    6:16 PM
    mhmm mhmm! you make some good points pippy. i agree. i also like tarnished's ideas sounds like a good QoL update
  4. OP

    skywratih24 Red Snail

    May 3, 2024
    6:16 AM
    Okay I'm suprised the thread kinda derailed from the OP but anyway...
    Theres another mmo I play fondly (award and acclaimed mmo btw bless yoship) where berserking actually feels *GOODASF*. The whole of zerk on maple goes against what most of the other classes do not even need to do aka be a sweatlord by maintaining a certain HP threshold see: iPippyiPippy's post earlier - like wtf pLeaSe? On ontop of that the rework where they wanted to keep risk by introducing the whole 1 hp bs ofc (limiting its use).

    Although I do loved the idea of berserk being an active skill. I always envisioned it having two parts that synergizes with the dk kit of sacrificing HP: the passive being similar to 'energy charge' like Marauders where any of your skills that drain hp% or -hp will add to a 'zerk' pool as a flat value with a cap.


    Stuff like sacrifice [​IMG] small %s and roar [​IMG] for big %s so you need to know when to use them properly. Then ontop of that dragon's blood [​IMG] will let you use all your skills with your HP pool instead (minus the % required ones ofc) thereby enabling skills like crusher/fury/rush etc to charge your 'zerk gauge'.

    Berserk then can then be released/toggled as a boon - giving a scaling +% accuracy/+% crit chance instead of +% damage (because what feels like it has a impact while increasing damage? A CRIT.) and draining that collected HP as a % over a period of time (buff will also weaken as the pool depletes but you can still 'charge' it under a zerk state with your -hp/%hp skills to maintain it longer).
    The more HP sacrificed the more powerful the buff but the hp % drained over the period is deadlier (100k hp drained over 30s? WEW) thereby keeping that 'risk' and hp management but this way the player has more control over berserk. HB will play a part as well - since it increases your total HP % you can sacrifice more hp into the pool to fill the gauge faster while also having a bigger buffer to deal with the % hp drained from zerking.
    Last edited: May 8, 2024
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