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Buff LUK mage weapons

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Daydreamer, Mar 31, 2020.

  1. Daydreamer
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    Daydreamer Headless Horseman

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    10:45 PM
    I/L Arch Mage
    [​IMG]

    Yep, it's that time again. Time for me to shamelessly beg for buffs to everybody's least favorite build, the LUK mage. With the influx of new players, I've been seeing a lot more LUK mages. This is always bittersweet: bitter, because I know most of them will eventually reroll, respec, or quit when they realize LUKless is meta, and sweet because LUK mages are friggin SWEET!

    Look, there's no way around this: LUK mage on this server is bad. Like, really, inexcusably bad. There is absolutely no build that makes more than 10 or so base LUK worthwhile (unless you use Chaos Scrolls-- more on that later). Besides adding a tiny bit of spell accuracy, decreasing the EXP loss on death, and adding a negligible amount of avoidability, LUK does absolutely nothing for a mage. Mage equipment which requires LUK do not give enough return to make them worthwhile.

    This is rather unfortunate because it makes dozens of mage equips absolutely worthless. It's also quite boring to dump all points into INT with 0 thought put into it. LUK mages are a nostalgic part of pre-BigBang MapleStory, so they should be buffed to become worthwhile.

    Here is my suggestion:

    Buff LUK wands/staves magic attack by 35% of their LUK requirement.

    As an example, Elemental Staff 8 would increase from 183 magic attack to 240 magic attack. This may seem like a lot, but in reality, it just barely breaks even with the lower level elemental wands and only when a LUK mage has around 70 LUK from clean equips, which is the absolutely highest amount possible. In other words, this is ONLY a buff to LUK mages who have min-maxed their LUK with a perfect clean Targa helm, an egged Horntail Pendant, a tier 10 monster book ring, +7 from other rings, a Crimsonheart Cloak with 5 LUK, and perfect endgame LUK mage robes and shoes.
    For most players, these changes would merely allow LUK mages to barely break even.

    Common Criticism and concerns

    Mages don't need a buff!
    This would not be a buff for mages in general. It would only be a buff for LUK mages, and in most cases, it would be so slight as to be insignificant. Have a little bit of perspective. The basic Wizard Potion adds around the same buff in magic attack to mages as this buff would, and yet nobody is claiming those potions are OP, or game-breaking, or should be removed from the game.

    This would change the meta game too much.
    The only case in which this would be a significant buff, as stated above, is for absolutely min-maxed LUK mages. Even in this case, LUK mages have lower max MP than LUKless mages and lose money on equips because scrolling high level mage robes is riskier than scrolling bathrobes that can easily be resold. Most mages do not go past level ~140 or so. In all cases, this buff would give around ~10 bonus magic attack, which is the equivalent of 2 levels. Most players would rather level up twice than get a tier 10 monster book ring, a Targa helm, and perfect robes and shoes for an insignificant boost to magic attack. The only real change to meta game this would bring is an increase in value of LUK mage equips and staff scrolls, which is not at all a bad thing.

    Why bother with a change like this?
    Yes, this is quite an insignificant change for most players, but it would be a huge buff for LUK mages. LUK mages are a nostalgic part of the game, being a very common build before the release of elemental staves and on servers where Maple weapons were unavailable. It wasn't until after BigBang that Neckson removed LUK requirements from mage equips, making LUK and LUKless builds alike a quintessential feature of pre-BigBang MapleStory. In addition, this change would make another build viable, giving people something new to play around with and take into account when making a mage.

    Everybody gets 20 LUK by level 200, so this buff would be OP at 200.
    This was true in GMS, but on MapleLegends, base stats are not capped at 999.

    This isn't nostalgic/ It's not the way it's always been/ I can't handle change :(
    1. LUK mages were part of pre-BB MapleStory.
    2. This server already has tons of balance changes which are in no way nostalgic, most notably the extensive buffs to Paladin that make it better than Hero on some bosses. This doesn't ruin the nostalgia for anyone and doesn't make Heroes useless.
    3. A game as old as v62 MapleStory needs occasional changes to keep it feeling fresh.


    LUK mages are already stronger than LUKless mages (with Chaos Scrolls)

    Surprisingly, I have heard this before. And yes, it is true. With a chaos'd Targa helm and Gold Lapiz Sandals, LUK mages are superior to LUKless mages. However, this is prohibitively expensive and RNG based and I don't believe Lapiz sandals good enough to make this worthwhile have ever existed on this server.

    Thank you for reading! I look forward to your comments.
     
    • Agree Agree x 10
    • Like Like x 1
  2. aaronis
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    aaronis Slimy

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    10:45 PM
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    Beaters
    i agree, luck mages and axe heroes deserve rights, they are huge memes and should not be
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Kanade
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    Kanade Mixed Golem

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    6:45 PM
    Insert mannie buff and nerf mage ults as well
    566008399137996813.png

    Also wouldnt this be a massive buff to low luk mages :confused:
     
  4. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    i dont see how luk mages are stronger than non luk mages even with chaos scrolls.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. Midnight
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    Midnight Skelegon

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    1:45 AM
    Midnight/TheMorrigan
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    I agree with the logic behind the suggestion, but 35% would be extreme.
     
  6. OP
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    Daydreamer
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    Daydreamer Headless Horseman

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    35% is just barely enough to break even with a 17 LUK Targa helm, an egged HTP, a tier 10 monster book ring, Ellin ring, and perfect LUK on robes and shoes. I don't really think it's extreme, though it might be a bit much on some lower level equips.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. OP
    OP
    Daydreamer
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    Daydreamer Headless Horseman

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    I/L Arch Mage
    Low LUK mages generally don't use LUK weapons, except at low levels, and at those levels they do not have access to HTP or tier 10 monster book ring, so it would not be worthwhile.
     
  8. YumiYumi
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    YumiYumi Mano

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    7:45 AM
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    I support OP on this.

    Edit: I wanted to add that I will be starting my I/L wizard now, and after much consideration and reading about the metas of this server, I decided I will go low-LUK build. I am fully aware it is not as good as luk-less but I just want to wear my mage gear for the nostalgia and fun. Hopefully Luk mages will get buffed in the future. It is so incredibly boring to stay in a sauna robe for 200 levels.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. OP
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    Daydreamer Headless Horseman

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    ✧・゚: *✧・゚:* bump *:・゚✧*:・゚✧
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  10. Nicholas
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    Nicholas Mixed Golem

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    As a player with a high-level luk bishop, I do not think this is the right way to go with luk mages. While it would be nice if luk mages had more damage, this isn't really contributing to the experience of being a luk mage. This calls into question what the actual point of making a luk mage should be, and right now, and even with the above suggestion implemented, the answer is still basically nothing. It would play the same as a lukless mage, and the only difference would be that it has the potential to do equal damage but has different equips. Instead, I believe we should focus on making luk-mages a completely different experience by buffing the avoid multiplier obtained from luk (https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/some-balancing-suggestions.28868/ suggestion 1).

    This should be fairly balanced as most lukless mages have very little luck, as it all comes from their helmet, rings, and horntail pendant, none of which are directly scrollable for luk, meaning they would have at most 1/3 the luk that a luk mage has just to equipt an elemental staff 5-8. If the buff is done correctly, it could even give incentive to have higher-luk than required by equips. I also don't believe this would result in pure-luk bishop mules (like dex buccs and luk paladins) as mages NEED mana in order to be useful and tank damage, and therefore they need high base intelligence.
     
  11. OP
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    Daydreamer Headless Horseman

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    Avoid is not worthwhile on a mage. Mages have no trouble tanking absolutely anything at any stage of the game. High avoid is simply useless. Also, mules would still likely go with pure LUK with your suggestion because it would probably be very trivial to hit 999 avoid and therefore tank everything without magic guard.

    LUK mage simply needs more damage to be comparable. There's really not much else that matters more for mages.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  12. Nicholas
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    Nicholas Mixed Golem

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    This is simply not true.

    Mages are extremely fragile in late game bosses with high damage, especially if they have dispel. Having avoidability drastically increases survivability. Also, your mana is directly tied to your int over a long-period of time and your mana is your HP, having high luk means that you either have low mana and low magic attack (i.e your character is a buff mule which is fragile), or you have high mana, spent millions of nx on washing int and mp into luk, and have low magic attack in the end in which case your mage has no capacity to make money on its own, which is a heavy price to pay for a mule. Further consider that a mule is going to die after getting hit after a dispel unless you react fast enough. This makes it even harder and more unreliable to practically use a mage mule in a boss (so arch mage mules are not in the question as they would have no damage). Now lets focus on bishop mules specifically. The job of a bishop is much more complicated than just giving HS every 2 minutes, holy shield needs to be done right on time, and often a run can fail or at least be seriously impaired if a bishop dies at the wrong time. I seriously doubt the investment in bishop mules given these circumstances. Finally, the luk multiplier number was not discussed, so I do not think the claim that one could hit 999 avoid easily is tenable at this point. The avoid that dex buccs have should be nerfed for this reason, especially since they have high HP and are easy to use as mules, but this topic is not relevant to this discussion, so I'll leave it there.

    Regarding buffs to magic attack, I am not opposed to a small increase, but if you really want that lukless damage then you should make a lukless mage like everybody else. Lukless elemental wands are in the game exactly for this reason, so luk mages deserve no hand-damage hand-out just for adding luk. Mages have a great opportunity to have multiple play-styles, and I think simply choosing to buff damage is a waste of their potential. A compromise of both a small increase to the magic attack on elemental staves and increasing avoidability multiplier on luk might be the best option.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Informative Informative x 1
  13. OP
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    Daydreamer Headless Horseman

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    I decided to think a bit about your suggestion, and after getting knocked off of my safe spot in Deep Ludi and Ninja Castle a few times while grinding, I see the benefit of high avoid. I think your suggestion makes a lot of sense, as it's likely in line with what Wizet had in mind when designing mage equips with a LUK secondary requirement. However, what I will say is that I still think a small buff to LUK staves/wands is necessary to make this tradeoff worthwhile. High avoid is useful in bossing situations, but I'm not sure how useful it would be to most elemental mages, especially at lower levels. Yes, it saves some money on potion costs and makes grinding less frustrating, but speaking as an I/L mage player, I don't take a ton of damage while grinding anyway. A min-maxed LUK mage needs 100 base LUK to equips the final elemental staff, setting them behind LUKless by 20 levels worth of INT. In the situation that the avoidability from LUK was buffed to a significant amount, I think that LUK mage weapons should be buffed by between 20-25% of their LUK requirement. This would put them about 4-6 levels behind LUKless in terms of magic attack in an absolute best case scenario. In a real world scenario, that would make them slightly weaker in most scenarios, but potentially competitive with LUKless given adequate funding and dedication.
     
  14. YoniSL
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    YoniSL Slime

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    Making LUK more viable would allow mages to pimp all those equipments like good old days instead of the same boring sauna/elemental/maple item combinations. Since transmog isn't an option of course, I'd say this sounds like a good suggestion.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1

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