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Pirate Build-a-Bucc-Workshop: An exploration into the problem of the rope

Discussion in 'Jobs' started by Alyosha, May 5, 2020.

  1. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    Imagine it's 2017 for a moment. Things are pretty great, you have a Nightlord and they sling some mad lines with your dozen apples, you and your buddies are just casually killing Horntail, and you're pretty proud of your squad's 150 minute kill, but those arms are kinda scary so don't touch them yet. Berserk 30 dropped? Nice! That'll be a good paycheck this week!

    It's too bad that it isn't 2017 anymore. It's 2020, and life is pretty shit. Your jobs have been taken, and it was those rotten dex buccs and HH mules that did it. They're an infection and a scourge on the maple world. This new world is scary. It has technology and it's confusing. It's then that you realize you're a maple boomer, and your mad Night Lord DPS just doesn't cut it anymore. You can't just solve all your problems by flinging endless throwing stars at the nearest part anymore. You have to put your DPM 45 into your resume to get on runs. You have to think, advance, improve, and be a degenerate until the other degenerates love you.

    Having a dex bucc is super viable to bring along with your well-endowed melee class, and a true marvel of technology. The pinnacle of civilization. If you bring one, then congratulations on having such a galaxy sized mind and you can pick up your Maplestory tryhard sticker in the kiosk on the way out.

    But are regular buccaneers still viable in the face of this new technology? I have no earthly idea.

    End of thread.

    Or maybe I should do some numbers or something. The current builds of most classes either optimize for damage, or optimize for some mule stat. It's pretty rare to try to find a balance between both, and to find that gray area where you can perform exactly how you desire in different content.

    Classic buccaneer philosophy is to minimize dex and maximize str, and because of that it can create some different scenarios, but the result is usually the same: Low base dex and just enough from gear to equip the weapon.

    But maybe it's not so bad to go over the dex requirement. Let's come up with a couple sets of gear with a few different AP builds on a casual level 170 buccaneer. By using 2 sets you can quickly increase your damage or your avoidability in different circumstances, so it's likely the go-to method of attempting to optimize both damage and utility.

    Full offense gear:
    Zakum Helm - 17 str / 30 dex / 15 luk / 20 avoid
    Spectrum Goggles - 2 str
    Rudolph's Red Nose - 1 attack
    Red Belly Duke - 27 str / 3 dex / 2 avoid
    Black Duke Barkin Shoes - 7 str / 7 dex
    Single Earring - 9 dex
    Pink Gaia Cape - 7 attack
    Brown Work Gloves - 13 attack
    Dragon Slash Claw - 100 attack / 11 str
    Mark of Naricain - 5 attack / 5 str / 5 dex / 5 luk
    Ellin Savior's Ring - 1 str / 1 dex / 1 luk
    Monster Book Ring <Tier 5> - 5 str / 5 dex / 5 luk
    Coke Zero Pill - 15 attack

    Total stats from gear: 134 attack / 59 str / 60 dex / 26 luk / 22 avoid
    Total avoid from that gear: 125

    Dex maximizing gear:
    Zakum Helm - 17 str / 30 dex / 15 luk / 20 avoid
    Spectrum Goggles - 2 dex
    Sad Mask - 7 dex / 7 avoid
    White Pioneer - 6 str / 22 dex
    Black Duke Barkin Shoes - 7 str / 7 dex
    Single Earring - 9 dex
    Crimsonheart Cloak - 5 str / 18 dex / 5 luk
    Red Martier - 3 str / 5 dex / 10 attack
    Dragon Slash Claw - 100 attack / 11 str
    Horntail Necklace - 23 str / 23 dex / 22 luk / 39 avoid
    Ellin Savior's Ring - 1 str / 1 dex / 1 luk
    Monster Book Ring <Tier 5> - 5 str / 5 dex / 5 luk
    Coke Zero Pill - 15 attack

    Total stats from gear: 115 attack / 67 str / 106 dex / 48 luk / 66 avoid
    Total avoid from that gear: 249

    Now that we have the stats from some theoretical average gear, we need to make some AP builds for the level 170 bucc. He has 864 AP to spend on either str or dex, and using the offense gear he needs at least 50 base dex to equip his knuckle, so that will be our floor.

    attack: 134
    str: 963 (= 822 + 82(mw20 from his friend pepelaugh) + 59(gear))
    dex: 115 (= 50 + 5(mw20) + 60(gear))
    avoid: 229 (= 1.5 x dex + .5 x luk + avoid + bless)

    Max attack range with offensive gear:
    MAX = (Primary Stat + Secondary Stat) * Weapon Attack / 100
    Knuckle Primary = Str x 4.8
    = (963 x 4.8 + 115) x 134/100
    = 6348

    Dodge rate in Horntail with offensive gear:
    Minimum because it's believed you need to have more avoid than the monster's accuracy to benefit from avoid

    This gives the bucc the best lines, but at the cost of having the minimum chance of avoiding an attack in HT, which could lower damage in it's own right from knockbacks/repositioning, as Buccaneers can't always have stance.

    Now let's equip the dex gear and see the change in range and avoid for the bucc with 50 base dex.

    attack: 115
    str: 971 (= 822 + 82(mw20) + 67(gear))
    dex: 161 (= 50 + 5(mw20) + 106(gear))
    avoid: 353

    Max attack range with dex gear:
    MAX = (Primary Stat + Secondary Stat) * Weapon Attack / 100
    Knuckle Primary = Str x 4.8
    = (971 x 4.8 + 161) x 115/100
    = 5545

    Dodge rate in Horntail with dex gear:
    Dodge Rate = 10/9 - (250/0.9)/(Avoid) [Thanks Skarmory for the nice thread]
    = 32.4% dodge rate

    The important numbers to compare are the ranges and the dodge rates in HT.

    Wear dex gear and you'll do 5545 / 6348 = ~87%(At least if damage is linear) of the damage from the full attack gear but you'll go from the minimum chance to dodge to a 32.4% chance to dodge.

    Is that a good tradeoff? Hell if I know, I don't play bucc.

    Dodge rates are all vs. HT's magic attacks

    +50 dex and -50 str
    Offensive gear range: 6068
    Offensive gear dodge rate: 21.8%
    Percent of optimal damage: 95.6%

    Dex gear range: 5293
    Dex gear dodge rate: 47.25%
    Percent of optimal damage: 83.4%

    +100 dex and -100 str
    Offensive gear range: 5788
    Offensive gear dodge rate: 40.4%
    Percent of optimal damage: 91.2%

    Dex gear range: 5082
    Dex gear dodge rate: 57.4%
    Percent of optimal damage: 80%

    I need to climb this rope immediately: +150 dex and -150 str
    Offensive gear range: 5508
    Offensive gear dodge rate: 52.6%
    Percent of optimal damage: 86.75%

    Dex gear range: 4801
    Dex gear dodge rate: 64.7%
    Percent of optimal damage: 75.6%

    That last one had avoids of 475 and 599. Honestly a bucc that chooses to go for 200 base dex and the rest attack gear looks like it could be a decent monster, especially since it keeps most of its damage.

    tl;dr: Make a 200 dex bucc it looks pretty neat

    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
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  2. RegalStar
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    RegalStar Nightshadow

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    Actual damage isn't linear based on range. HT's heads have def which takes a fixed chunk out of your range before multipliers (skills or otherwise are applied). Since left head has 1760 def and right head 1840, I'll take an average of 1800, which means 900 is deducted from your range. That means wearing dex gear does 4645 / 5448 = ~85.3% of damage gear.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Buffles
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    Buffles Dark Stone Golem

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    I'm a maple boomer and I'm making a buccaneer. What in the world is a dex buccaneer? I'm just focusing on having as little as possible to equip gear...
    ELI5 dex bucc pls
     
  4. KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    The priate DEX to avoid formula is ab it broken. They fucked up the Corsair's, no idea why and made Buccaneer's a bit too good to make them kinda like Shadowers? in the end the avoid you gain as a Buccaneer isnt hight enought to rely on it like a thief would. Getting as much STR as possible is the best build as buccaneer, the high multiplier on knuckles (second higest multiplier of the game) makes STR way too good comapred to DEX dmgwise. There is a fix to DEX Bucc mules tho: As I asked a coupel of times make Enrgy Charge more reliable by making it last 120 seconds and give it an easier way to charge up during bosses, double charge on bosses was good altho someone suggested make the skill gain more charge on multihit skills (for example barrage (6 hits) gives as much charge as flash fist (1 hit) since both hit one target only making mobbing skills the way to go when coems to charging up) Giving Bucc a way to workout their stance and and making stance a lot better will be a lot more fun for Buccs and they will stop strugging with HT at times. All this and you can make the DEX to avoid ratio same as the other jobs.

    BTW no idea what to do with HH mules, you cant mess up the mule without messing up the real Paladins x.x
     
  5. iPippy
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    iPippy Nightshadow

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    I dont think the decision is quite so one-dimensional. If you aim to craft a mix of gear/stat, I'd honestly not even assess other areas of the game and see the scope of potential impacts in this design space. The diminishing returns of avoid may (or may not), actually have a turning point for where converting a point of str->dex isnt worthwhile anymore and would need to be determined. With decent to higher-end dex gears, I think I'm expecting to cap at just shy of 400 avoid without sacrificing high value slots (cape,etc) and with 20 base dex.

    I think the impact is larger on newer runners who need to climb the rope, but current best practice involves not even climbing the rope anymore (corkscrew to wings, and then again up the left head). The impacts of avoid then become minimizing repositions from top rock while transformed, but even that repositon time can be minimized with jumping demolitions. I havent bothered counting attacks per minute I recieve while transformed and reposition time if a jumping demo is missed or is too risky based on positioning.

    While I have also thought there is a reasonable balance between str:dex (as we get more str, we gain less % dmg increase, and stand to gain more effective increase through more dodges and vice versa), that's a problem with many dimensions based on total attack from gear and player skill to even begin to formulate a balance. I also have other needs than just the dragon, so I do not want to make drastic build changes to ap for testing at this time myself.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    One of the larger issues with buccaneers here is that almost every single piece of equipment can be scrolled for dex, but not everything can be scrolled for STR. As a result, its harder for a bucc to go for higher BASE dex and have their build stay optimal than for other classes.

    For buccs to make higher base dex viable, they would need to have a STR helmet, and STR earrings, which unfortunately can only be produced with chaos scrolls.

    This being said, I still think there is a lot of merit in having a bucc scroll 2 sets of gear - str gear and dex gear. You can just swap the dex gear for horntail, and use the str gear at every other content and keep your class build optimal for those situations.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. cakesogood
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    cakesogood Windraider

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    Demun, kokushibo
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    this is a nice thread thank you for your work
     
  8. Samyy
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    Samyy Slime

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    Remove avoid gain from dex completely and give us more stance related buffs ez fix rip dex bucc mules as well then.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
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  9. KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    Don't just remove it make it equal to the otehr jobs in exange of more stance with my suggestion o.o
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. RegalStar
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    RegalStar Nightshadow

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    I'm going to note that this an extremely, extremely dangerous line of thought. It will be able to nerf a lot of the current bucc mules, yes, but all it will do in the long term is to get people make LUK buccs instead, which may be less evasive but can still sport a decent amount of dodge rate and do their job quite well. Meanwhile it will more or less make normal buccs' life much harder than it already is, which would make the whole thing just completely backwards. Honestly, there isn't a good way to "fix" bucc mules outside of making multiclienting in boss battles a bannable offense or something.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  11. iPippy
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    iPippy Nightshadow

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    I'm sure itll go exactly as you've said, and not only that, it will standardize our gear/build options and remove depth from our class. Turns out the game wasnt balanced around everyone having unlimited characters at once. Who would have guessed?
     
  12. OP
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    Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    [​IMG]
     
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