CWKPQ Balance Notes

I dont think nerfing the MoN will make NL any less poerful, at the end of the day they still got SE stackin with their crit(the main reason NL is op to beuin with), huge avoid, OP gear to abuse (cape, socks and gloves) ranged advantages, apples, stoppers and more that last longer cos of alchemist. Compares to all that the MoN is ok, i dont mind if ints gets nerfed atm tho.
If we want to nerf NL nerfing the critical damage they do would be a good start. Alto nerfing the class is hard without breaking it or without a huge chante like big bang o.o so al is complicarse so lets ser how this ends

 

Slightly off topic, but I don't even think that NLs are as broken as people are making it out to be. Obviously under ideal conditions NLs do the most damage and have incredibly useful advantages such as 50% buff duration and high avoid+shifter. However due to the difficulties introduced by (OPTIONAL) washing and high dependence on gear, there are only a handful of NLs who reach their full potential. Most of the NLs you meet on the server are not that much stronger than other similarly leveled attacker classes. Even in the endgame when everyone is finished washing and has godly gear, BMs(which offer SE) and Heroes(who are significantly less gear/washing dependent) can get pretty damn close to the DPM output of even the strongest NLs. I think that the disadvantages associated with NLs justify(at least to some extent) the massive advantages they get.

To bring it back to the MoN discussion, I don't think we need to worry too much about the slight gap between NLs and other classes that might be caused by the MoN.
However, if general power creep is a concern, one particular solution is to adjust the stats of the MoN so that it is slightly better than an egged HTP (by say 1-2 atk). As long as the MoN is even slightly better than HTP, people will do CWKPQ and go after it.

 

If crushed skulls are added to CWKPQ, I think it would only be fair if sky skis are added as well. There are now 2 ways to get stonetooths and crushed skulls, but Drk's endgame weapon has be be acquired through gachapons unlike the other two warrior classes. With the removal of cash gachapon, there would likely be an even lower supply of skis and the price would be even more unaffordable.

 

Or we could even do a combination of the two. There could be a high level un-nerfed MoN that expires as well as a lower level nerfed MoN that doesn't expire.

 

crushed skulls were originally in CWKPQ as a bonus stage drop, afaik sky skis weren't

also max att skis are like 35-40m, while skulls are much more expensive and essentially don't exist on the market because of how hard it is to obtain one (enjoy farming 8+ hours on average for one skull)

INCIDENTALLY i'd like to say that a crushed skull is actually weaker dpm than a red katana and the only reason it's used is b/c it's the best 1h bw until the neo tokyo flairgrave/speargrave...which most people will never get to craft because it's 163+ content

tl;dr INCREASE SKULL DROP RATE@@@@@@@@@@@@

 

Let's also talk about the drop rate of MoN's. I've only had experience with gms and the drop rates of MoN's were 50% per boss and more than one MoN could drop per boss death. What kind of drop rates are we gonna get with the MoN?

 

Could also make MoN droprate super low so its acually really hard to find it. I dont mind a challange if its worth it. Or if its possible make the range 1-11att so its hard to get a good one

 

I get the MoN nerfing idea of making it slightly less powerful than HTP (since Horntail is the ultimate endgame boss, etc, etc) But why nerfing so much the cape over items that depend purely on luk (PAC and PGC which as for today are only available from gachapon/exchange events)

 

I still like the idea that MoN should expire while also being un-nerfed or (preferably imo) slightly nerfed while having the level requirement to wear it unchanged. Ideally this would allow HTP to remain desirable as a permanent alternative for the same slot. I believe you should not necessarily have a MoN at all times if you don't run CWKPQ frequently. I think this justifies the higher power (assuming that MoN will be better than HTP on average from all classes at various levels).

I think the drop rate of MoN is closely tied to how shortly it should expire. I believe that with 1 run of CWKPQ with 4 bosses you should expect to see about 1 MoN drop on average (so 25%-30% drop rate per boss). This would allow higher level players to consistently sell MoN. However you should also consider how many runs it would take to get a MoN for a whole group of runners. Assuming that CWKPQ is limited to 2 runs per day, a group of 6-12 frequent runners would need 3-6 days on average to get a MoN for everybody. Knowing how frequently people like to run bosses like Zak or HT (usually weekends) I believe this scenario puts an expiration date of 30 days as a good cut-off.

I think this is the best compromise that should appeal to those who want an un-nerfed MoN, those who have concerns about power creep (and retaining desirability of HTP), and even those who have concerns about CWKPQ becoming dead content.

 

I wonder if the drop rate of the chocolate drop rate will be down that will make the pot obscure, like the energizer from NT, you either get it from a quest or you get it as a lucky drop from any mob. Too rare to make it a reliable pot for any boss, so ciders do better its work. Same may happen with the chocolate nad apples.

 

Swiss cheese was originally given an adjusted drop rate in the balancing thread but was later edited out. For these edited drop rates (in bonus stage), it would be nice to know what kind of numbers the game dev’s played with, the original drop rates as well as the changes they’ve made. What kind of balancing changes are you making? Are you increasing/decreasing the drop rate of the original drop rates for these highly prized items? What was wrong with the original drop rates that the game dev’s had to change with regards to “balancing”?

As for the MoN issue, i am more in favour of a slightly higher drop than what Luscious at a cost of a shorter item life. (35% would be ideal) to ensure that theres a good chance that at least one MoN would drop and quite possibly have 2+ MoN’s drop. These assume that the number of bosses is 4. If MapleLegends do decide to add the MV Pirate boss in cwkpq, then the droprate could be ~30% per boss with 5 bosses per pq. The droprate of the MoN definitely needs to be high enough that most of the time, at least one MoN will drop or else the rarity of the MoN would be too exclusive for the effort put into the the whole cwkpq process.

The Blackfist Cloak is among one of the rarer items dropped in bonus. Keep the rarity of the cape intact and because of the rarity, retain original stats of the cape (3-5 att w/ no slots). The blackfist cloak would be too useless and rare should it be nerfed to the suggested stats (even as an hp cape).

Thoughts on making the Blackfist Cloak expire as well?

 

I agree with the MoN nerf. Perhaps have it a bit better than HTP since it has no room of improvement due to 0 slots. Regardless of the solution, something needs to be done about MoN.

The Blackfist Cloak should not be nerfed. I would even argue to slightly buff the cape (perhaps 3-6 atk 0 slots); it serves as an entry attack cape. Would also help people who aren't well funded and can't afford a 1b+ PAC/PGC.

 

Why should a non-event item expire? Everyone has the opportunity to get it whenever and it is not going to be another agent gear case because it isn't bound to an event. Having it be better than a Horntail Pendant shouldn't be an issue, Horntail isn't a challenge and it shouldn't matter that HTP should be better, Horntail will still be a good source of EXP and skillbooks and will be ran forever. Washing will also influence the importance of HTP.

Just don't make it expire and if its too good to be kept original maybe a nerf of 1~3att with 1 slot should keep people trying many many times to make a pendant that is slightly better than an HTP.

CWKPQ will also still be done for the other treasures and not just the pendant (for those who got a good pendant).

 

A MoN too good? For whom? Hiyo I play a dps bishop, can we bishops get a damage boost so that we can contend with other classes that do at least 5-8m dpm? (Guess we need to buff archmages as well)

 

You already have that DPS boost in the form of SI.

 

Since when did bishops/mages get SI? akashsky. Kimmy, I need an full sp reset for my bishop so i can redistribute my sp points to have Speed Infusion. If mages have SI, would make buccs less desirable to play as SI would be more common.

 

Like I said earlier, I believe expiration would justify allowing it to be more powerful than the proposed nerf. Your point about agent gear doesn't make any sense either. The biggest issue with agent gear was not that it was unavailable to obtain throughout the year, but that it was too cheap and easy (literally afk) to get permanent best-in-slot gear. So to say that people have the opportunity to get MoN whenever only reinforces my point that you shouldn't get one-and-done, rather you should have to put in the effort to maintain it if it is going to be blatantly BiS over existing content. Also I disagree that hurting the HTP market is not an issue.

 

Expiration date makes no sense, why should permanent content reward expiring things, and I only mentioned the agent issue cause it went from permanent to expiring, but thats because its an event that may or may not happen again, and yes it was free chaos scrolls and that was the issue.

Having it be 1~3 att with 1 slot means the effort is there, having to attempt chaosing it multiple times and if you're lucky you get 6-8 attack which makes it better than an HTP. Meanwhile the HTP will keep its value as a less risky but solid pendant.

 

I have no issue with this. I was in favor of basically this before I started thinking about the expiration compromise.

Could you expand on why you think this doesn't make sense? It increases the incentive to repeat content while justifying a powerful reward with a maintain-it-or-lose-it system.

 

Your earlier comment Hiyo with regards to a 1-3 att nerf on the permament MoN with 1 slot seems too unreasonable. Those rich/lucky enough will chaos a MoN that would be even better than the existing unnerfed MoN. Lets use the most extreme case of a 3 att nerf to an 11att MoN. 8 att + 5 att (from a lucky chaos) would the MoN even more op and this time, limited to the very extremely rich people. Those people who argue for a nerfed MoN because of damage disparity between classes will just exemplify this matter to the extreme with the exclusivity and limited availability of the 13 att MoNs. By offering an untweaked MoN is the better of the cases as it would eliminate the extremists in the game.