CWKPQ Balance Notes

Can we address the cape?
Its 1-3 wa, untradable with no slots?
Thats too horrible, no one would even chaos the cape if there were slots added.
This is because you can't possibly re-sell the cape for mesos and people would still rather chaos a 4wa pgc.

In my opinion, having the cape be 1 -4 wa (or even 2-4wa) with slots is should be good.
Extra hp for the tradeoff of being untradable seems fair.
Reminder that Black raggedy cape has 2wa. At the current state, Blackfist cloak is just a Black raggedy cape with 300hp.

 

I disagree, but again we can agree to disagree. We have to meet in the middle somewhere. I am not gonna go into every detail as to why I disagree because everything has been said, just simply I am not gonna re-illiterate everything. There are other ways to implement stronger pendants for higher level classes that is not MoN (perhaps... something like a chaos version of HTP) But at this point in time, an un-nerf MoN does not fit into MapleLegends. And once again, I disagree with the usefulness.. a 110 cannot equip a HTP, therefore he can use the MoN till 120, *assuming* he has the funds to get one. The MoN serves as a mid-tier pendant. Now if you disagree with that, fundamentally we cannot go further with the conversation. Agree to disagree, but the popular vote by far is too "balance" the MoN and ultimately it is Kim's decision to nerf it.

Side note... I know Chaos version of items did not exist in pre-BB, my point was that there can be better pendants implemented in the future that is not MoN.

Yes I agree, I think they should leave it as is and lower the slots to 2 or 3 and make it un-tradeable.

 

Sorry but I don't understand the whole HOO-HA about this. I've seen ridiculous arguments bringing age old completely unrelated topics in. There are countless of strawhat narratives and incomprehensible anecdotal examples.

What I see the MoN nerf is simply a means to an end that the community largely wants.

Here's how it goes:
1) Community strongly in favour of having CWKPQ (nostalgia etc.)
2) Kimmy and devs raised biggest issue of CWKPQ - the MoN is too OP
3) Resolution? Release CWKPQ so everyone can ENJOY the pq, nerf MoN so that this is made possible
????
4) End

MoN was never the intention, neither is the cape. The purpose of this release is for the ML community to enjoy the PQ and for high levels to access a more fun and challenging PQ.

**Bonus fact! MoN can be extremely helpful for people like ME, I am happy to use the MoN as I do not have the time, energy and mesos to run HT for its rewarding HTP.

Whats the big fuss?

 

This keeps both pendants relevant, a middle ground for those who want MoN > HTP and keeping HTP relevant. Not sure how another elitist item is "bad" when the player has another really good item which is an HTP.

 

If you are a mage you use htp and if you are a physical attacker you use the MoN. Besides HT has more to offer like books and good exp as well as lv 110 weapons.

 

Make MoN drop from ht

 

• in gms htp was 72 all stat egged 3 times with sok and whatever. these who claimed this is how it was in gms nostalgia and balance wise should refresh their memories that htp was better there as well, and many factors were different. in my opinion htp should be at least comparable with mon if not better, leaving the player to decide what is better for him. so 1-3 att (2 avg) is ok (0 slots)
• i don't see how 30% weapon att scrolls are too expensive right now and need intervention. most of them are 100k - 1.5m with only glove att 30 and claw att 30 being above 5m. i think claw att 30 price is fair (9) and really just glove att (11+) being too hard to obtain right now (only soul in the dark quest with 10% chance). the other 30% expensive scrolls are int/m.att and i don't think u wanna support leechstory / maplewash being even more mage oriented.
  
• other bonus drops that were mentioned : + specturm googles - very good!!!!! wanted it to be introduced way before with gachapon but this works as well. racc masks are mostly for accuracy and if you don't have broken glasses as thief/archer/corsair u are a little screwed
  -blizz30, green mittens, elewand 5 - very good, we really didn't need more of them in market. but -green sleve not sure if i like as dragon scales and luk ores are already very rare and only ht drops dgs
• i think blackfist cloak and all other capes should remain as originally introduced. pink cape with 3 or 4 attack are already very expensive (almost 100 and 200m respectively) and only obtained through gacha so it's a welcomed and refreshing change. the price also only seem to go higher. can just alter it with low drop rate.
  
• you are probably gonna imitate royals and implement the pirate boss as well, never played there so idk how it works but i think making the boss stage harder is correct.
• i actually think the scrolls that should be somehow implemented are white / chaos scrolls and maybe css (1/20%). now that event is over white scroll gonna sky rocket again and make it unobtainable for almost all players. in contrast to how important that scroll is. can ignore this point for now but in few weeks when there are no white scrolls in fm u will maybe change ur mind

 

I'm not agreeing with you on anything. The best way to implement a pendent > than the HTP would be with the introduction of cwkpq and the unnerfed MoN. Neo Tokyo, a more late game content vs. horntail also had the release of magic throwing knife throwing stars. They are superior to furies and have a lower level requirement. This game already socially accepts that items and wants items that are of lower level but better than their higher level counterpart. The Mark of Naricain (MoN) (and Blackfist Cloak (BC)) should not be exceptions to this matter. + Leave the Blackfist Cloak unnerfed. It will have no slots and thus be inferior to the Pink Adventure Cape/ Pink Gaia Cape (PAC/PGC) as these two pink capes have slots for chaos. Hiyo The elitists items will still be the PAC/PGC.

Wait a minute, why allow PAC/PGCS, which are much lower level than the BC and greater level difference with its counterpart (BC), to exist in MapleLegends when you are selective pushing for some items to be of higher stats because of "its a higher level" argument. This is a clear example of fallacy of double standards. Now leaving items not that much changed (ie the MoN) unnerfed won't have so much problem with the aspects and future of MapleLegends. It's just how the game goes with these features.

Kimmy suggested in today's patch maintenance post that pink bean could be coming in the distant future. Now with Kimmy's current standings, true miracle cubes and hidden potentials are out of this question not going to be implemented. With this said, Pink Bean will be literally impossible to defeat and thus true balancing will be required. A MoN nerf isn't required, It shouldn't even be considered for a nerf. Even with an unnerfed MoN, the HTP will still stay relevant.

TL;DR
MoN shouldn't get the nerfed treatment as it is not balancing a game-breaking issue.
Either nerf the MoN and not the BC, or not both as that just breaks existing norms catered to this server.
The MoN shouldn't even be nerfed in the first place as it will not make the HTP obsolete.
True balancing is required for game-breaking/unplayable content and the MoN is no such item that requires balancing.

 

i really like this idea. unnerfed but untradble and maybe even one of a kind

 

Never said you agreed with me. I said we can agree to disagree meaning that we are in disagreement but it’s okay! We all know your stance on the matter already, it’s quite out there. I now want to hear other people’s opinion on the matter, preferably people who agree with you so I can read their perspective. You made your point, it’s time for other people to step in and make theirs.

 

Let's hear from people who are in support of the proposed Mark of Naricain nerfs (as well as the Blackfist Cloak), Lots of people have shown support with the nerfs but with no explanation.

Here are the current arguements for nerfs:

• In line with progessive levels of the equipment strength
  
• Horntail pendent should still remain the (BiS) end-game item
  
• It's harder to obtain a htp than it is to obtain a MoN
• It makes the horntail pendent obsolete as well as doing horntail entirely should the MoN come unnerfed
• cwkpq level requirements vs horntail level requirements
• damage creep?

Feel free to add more down but as for the arguements above, I've tackled all of the above arguments and has made a compelling and suffice case against each of the above.

 

Hmm, I don't think you counter the fact that its harder to obtain a HTP as a buyer. For MoN, a buyer can literally afk most of the PQ (besides changing maps to get to the next stage). Even on the boss stage, there is a safe spot for them to afk as long as the attackers pin the bosses properly.

On horntail, you can't safely afk because there is a chance your auto pot fails and you die.

 

You can’t afk in zak but you can afk in scar/targ runs as buyers yet zakum is also more difficult than scar. Zakum yields a lower level item helm but its harder to survive there. Why don’t you also argue that the zakum helm needs to be buffed to be better than the scar/targ helms? The Neo Tokyo Nibergen boss is a higher level boss than horntail yet you could fight that boss and not get hit at all. Buyers can go there and buy chairs with less effort than that of the ht chair or zak chair. Whats your point here with mentioning buyers have a harder time at horntail vs. Cwkpq? You won’t even get to clear cwkpq without cooperation while you can with horntail.

 

My point is that its objectively harder for a buyer to obtain a horntail pendant than a MoN. You can say the same about scar/targa vs zak, but the scale of power between the two helms is 2 stat points - its minuscule in my opinion.

And how do you define cooperation? Because I don't see how cooperation isn't required in Horntail, but is required in cwkpq.

 

Definition of cooperation in English: (from oxford English)

cooperation
(also co-operation)

NOUN
mass noun

• 1The action or process of working together to the same end.
  
  ‘they worked in close cooperation with the British Tourist Authority’
  
  1. 1.1 Assistance, especially by complying readily with requests.
     ‘we should like to ask for your cooperation in the survey’
     
     
  2. 1.2Economics The formation and operation of cooperatives.

I hope you do know the ‘pq’ part in cwkpq stands for party quest. Without cooperation, you cannot complete cwkpq but you can complete horntail.
Cooperation in this situation is the pivotal teamwork required to get through all of the stages of cwkpq successfully and in a timely manner that wouldn't be possible otherwise. You can't solo cwkpq but you can for horntail. (you can't solo cwkpq as you will run out of time moving all of the characters but you can solo ht, if everyone else dies and you still see horntail killed by the individual).

And I have already argued that cwkpq is at least as hard(difficult) as horntail.
I can argue that cwkpq is objectively as hard or if not harder than horntail. Because of all the quest parts, communication, randomness in cwkpq, and tricky boss fight that it is harder to cwkpq. In horntail, you have over 10+ hours to complete the boss fight. In cwkpq, you are constantly pressed for time and one small hiccip (mistake) can end your cwkpq earlier than expected. All you have to worry about in horntail is the seduce, and dispel, the 1/1's and debuffs. Otherwise you can slowly grind out and kill horntail. For Cwkpq, you have to worry about all 4/5 bosses at the same time. What usually makes it easier in cwkpq is warriors can pin certain bosses to one side of the map so that ranged attackers can fight a boss one at a time. However since you are soloing, you will be exposed to all of the bosses' unique abilities, zombify, 1/1 + poison combo, stuns, more poison, etc. No doubt about it that cwkpq seems harder now, just taking into account the solo-ness. Difficulty is defined as something that is hard to accomplish, deal with, or understand. Challenges, obstacles, effects, that is something that makes it hard to accomplish. Not some duration of time especially if you are given ample time in the case of horntail. You know, pink bean drops boss exclusive items too such as the pink bean hat, and the pink bean suit. Are you going to argue that these two pink bean equips need a buff also? All these items are not game-breaking and for the MoN, perfectly balanced. By wearing a MoN, it's not going to blow your damage out of the water vs other pendants. A game-breaking item is an item defined as breaking the game or making the game unplayable such as reduced fps, or disconnections. A item that is one pixel off from perfect is not considered game-breaking. Don't merge the two ideas into the same term. If a MoN does not cause gameplay to suffer, then it should be allowed to stay unnerfed, when it is released.

Another argument proposed for nerfing the MoN is that it makes horntail more appealing to tackle vs cwkpq. Horntail already has great rewards even without the MoN that makes it appealing for people to do on a regular basis. A nerfed MoN will just make cwkpq rewards, trash. With a nerfed MoN, the appeal to cwkpq, even with drops like gelt chocolates, and swiss cheese, crushed skills won't even be enough to entice players to touch cwkpq once the release hype dies down.

TL;DR

• Game wants to nerf the MoN to make horntail battles still attractive to do. False!, Cwkpq's core principle is to obtain a MoN that is better than the HTP. Gutting the MoN's stats would make cwkpq irrelevant. Solution? by not nerfing the MoN, it would keep horntail a very attractive boss to fight, and make cwkpq another popular party quest to do. Once people have MoN's, they will just go back to doing horntail as there is less incentive to continue doing cwkpq.
• A MoN is not game nor stupidly strong as since it is not an exclusive item, everyone will have access to it making the damage spread among jobs not that noticeably different.
• Nerfing or buffing items is unlawful and should only be done so in extreme situations where it will change the meta of the game drastically. An unnerfed MoN will not change the meta of the game
  
  

Proposal: Hiyo Luscious
Make cwkpq only available in limited channels? I think gms did that for a while but I'm not quite sure how many channels it was in.

 

Welp you've convinced me. I no longer believe cwkpq is strictly easier than HT. Though at this point I guess i'm somewhat indifferent towards a nerfed or unnerfed MoN. I just wanna do some cwkpq .

 

Me too! I really want to try pirate boss as that wasn't in part of jms. Also when zak was first released in gms, zak was only available in 4 channels, (channels 1-4). Maybe cwkpq can be limited to 1-2 channels. . Original GMS had cwk be limited to odd or even channels when it first came out iirc.

 

you can still get hit in nibergen lol. there is no safe spot. ive learned from experience