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Enrage Buff

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Piel, Nov 29, 2020.

  1. Piel
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    Piel Red Snail

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    Enrage is one of the most unused skill for Hero(26+ atk and i think it only buffs himself at lvl 30). Make it gives 30+ atk and buff allies too, so Heroes will be more accepted in parties. That is omething close to what ML staff did with fighters rage.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Sepio61
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    Sepio61 Chronos

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    I think it would be more useful if Enrage doesn’t get debuffed from bosses since it has an 8 minute cooldown.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  3. iccqqq
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    iccqqq Dark Stone Golem

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    reworked enrage = use all orbs for +% damage for like 60 seconds or whatever :cool:
     
  4. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    I'd like to see something like +%STR for a short duration so that it stacks on top of rage and other atk potions. Heroes haven't had a rework since the rage buff like two years ago... which got overshadowed with the recent buff to ciders.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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  6. KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    Monster Magnet be like:
    memecito.jpg
     
  7. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Monster Magnet is a shared skill amongst the 4th job warrior class while Enrage is a class-specific skill. It's pretty underwhelming to have a 4th job skill that performs worse than a 2nd job skill. Reworks have been made for the paladin class with their recent buffs to holy charge. I think it would be fair to have a discussion about how stagnant and bland the hero class has become.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  8. iPippy
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    iPippy Nightshadow

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    Hero has always been stagnant and bland though SlimeWink
     
  9. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Of course. But with the latest shift in class meta, the upsides to playing an entry level class like hero opposed to a shadower, paladin, or even buccaneer is nonexistent. I feel like over the past year, identities for every class has been solidified with minor tweaks and balance changes - all except for heroes. The only indirect change for heroes was the nerf to bears, but this was simultaneously nullified with the buffs to a larger stack for ciders.

    The reason why I think enrage should be reworked is that it's a class-specific skill - one of only three for Heroes. When the entire class identity revolves around being a middling damage dealer (ACA is just a continuation of 3rd job skill and is just a damage multiplier), mobbing (brandish botting that has lost a wide range of utility as things shifted towards single target bossing), and tanking (shared with the other warriors, losing out to DKs with HB utility), it makes sense to add a bit of weight for the Hero class identity in their last skill, Enrage.

    With that said, it's pretty pathetic that most Heroes tend to forgo Enrage entirely for the other skills (as atk potions don't get dispelled and you get a free buff from HT that is better), while this is not the case for both DKs, Paladins, or generally every other class.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  10. KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    I'm not sure how
    Hero still in a good place if you ask me.
    Upsides:
    -Best cleaver in the game (pretty good at Zakum arrms, HT cleave, CWKP)
    -Still good single target DPM for a melee class and in Pink Bean you can outdmg Paladins (damn resistances)
    -Simple class, straight foward and effective.
    -Tanky and easy washing
    -Like most melee jobs they are very independent and can do well on chaotic situations

    Comparitions:
    -In cleaving situations Hero is the best bet. Bucc and Paladin don't really cleave is mostly cheap dmg done to multiple parts (Bucc has support to kidan compensate). Shadower cleave is super neat but they lack on other areas (at least thet got neat support). DK is kinda close on cleave dmg but they are far more expensive to use (But like Shad supports help them to be picked)
    -Single target DPM still very good compared to Paladin a class that must excell on single target since they got no cleave or support, and you still beat them on Pink Bean or Krexel due to elemental resistances. Shadower single target is one of the worst among physical attackers. Bucc single target I'm not sure since we got a barrel tech now but I bet Hero still does better in single target than them (An buccc must focus to be efficient on damage). And well DK is weker on single target outside apples and Zerk limits their dmg in bosses like Pink Bean or Toad, and even you Zerk Toad is easy to die if you srew up.
    -Being simple is a big upside since you can perform at maximum power easily. Buccaneer, Shad and DK have some skills that may require more attention and can screw performance (Even to people that are good at those jobs can do badly if they get distacted, thats why I don't like to be party leader as Bucc). Paladin is kinda simple too so you can use the other downsides to balance it up.
    -Tanky and easy washing. Paladin is the same pretty much altho is a bit more common to see them with shields makign them mreo tanky. Buccaneer and DK are kinda flimshy if you make too much mistakes. Shadower is super tanky but they desrve it to compensate for some lacks in dmg at times like single target.
    -All melee are kinda independent but DK in a way since the boos they get from other people (SE and SI) is so masive they perform better on well stabloshed parties.

    So yeah Hero is cool and has a spot in the meta now the buffs for Enrage I'm not sure, Orbs charge up pretty fast so the downtime isn't too bad, perhaps when the skill gets dispelled is bad but BM has a similar issue with Concetrate.
     
  11. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Let's think of this in another way - do you think it should be so easy to obtain 20 attack from potions?

    Warrior Elixirs are 12 attack. Coke Pills are 15 attack. Ciders are 20 attack, and they used to be balanced in the past with their 1 cider/slot stack limitation, making it not as viable for longer/caved boss fights. We also have things like Guavas that are +20 attack for 15 mins and Energizers that are +25 atk for 30 mins, but they aren't purchasable through NPC and must be farmed through quests or mobs. We used to have a cash shop item called Party Bear that buffed the entire map for +20 atk/30 m atk for 15 minutes, but they patched that out as it set the standard floor for attack buffs too high at 20 attack.

    With a class identity that revolves around purely dealing damage and buffing +atk for your party, it's a bit disheartening to see Heroes' skills being eclipsed by easily attainable alternatives.
    If Chocolate Baskets (Haste/HB/HS buffs in potion form) suddenly became purchasable through NPC, I'm sure most people would raise a stink. Making these alternative forms for standard party buffs harder to obtain (including the current standard of +20 attack) is another area of balance that I think should be considered.

    We're finally past the days of cheap, affordable stews (RIP). I think now would be a good time to discuss the balance around attack buffs and, consequently, Enrage.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  12. Jaewonnie
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    Jaewonnie Capt. Latanica

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    I'm all for an enrage buff if the base dmg of heroes are detuned to compensate for it. Maybe increase the watk bonus from enrage and lower the cd while lowering brandishes dmg or whatever keeps the dpm to what it is now.
     
  13. JDPJHC
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    JDPJHC Mixed Golem

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    none of you have mastered the art of the Hero and it really shows..

    Heros dont need a buff you guys just need better gear and levels.

    Enrage in my opinion is a great skill. Although in the past I have also made suggestions to buff this skill, I realize now that that came from me being a scrub hero.

    Assuming you guys are using enrage properly (protip: dont cast enrage if you think DP is coming. If you dont know if its off cooldown, just wait) enrage adds a nice +3 weapon attack for FREE on average. This weapon attack will scale with your levels which is why a lot of you probably think this is a useless skill. You guys are low leveled.

    Even as a lvl 200 hero that now is working on a 2nd hero, I would still not suggest a buff to our class.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    I was never looking for a buff to Heroes regarding overall DPM but rather a rework around the class identity and overall utility through its skills. Enrage never got any adjustments alongside the Rage buffs a few years ago, so its level up scaling is kind of wonky and unjustified. As it is now, Rage outclasses Enrage for the first ~20+ levels, and furthermore, it's made somewhat irrelevant with the plethora of equivalent or greater attack buffs (stews/HT buff). For a skill that is basically one of three Hero-exclusive skills, it's kind of whack that you put off leveling it until level 175+, then to which you would have about 7-8 levels of useless SP wasted before it becomes comparable to your 2nd job skill. I get that a free +3 attack buff at end game is great and all, but it oftentimes feels lackluster - especially with the long ass cooldown.

    In comparison, BMs have Concentrate with the same uptime of 240 seconds with a shorter cooldown of 6 minutes (fairly recent buff nvm I'm conflating two different occurrences where they buffed then reverted the cooldown) in addition to having the secondary benefit of Mana spend -50%, so they still have a use for Concentrate along with their better attack pots. They also do not have a 2nd job skill that already gives them +20 atk, so this is a fairly unique and useful skill to have for their class-specific 4th job. Heroes don't have a secondary benefit in Enrage and instead have a longer cooldown and are further taxed by it consuming orb charges. Now I'm not saying these skills should be on equal footing, but I find it odd that every other class has gotten small reworks to each of their skills except Heroes.

    All in all, I think Heroes are still great. It was my first real attacker class and I have two of them myself. But I'd like to open up the discussion on the possibilities of reworking its skills and its progression holistically, not just with end-game numbers.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2

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