Information February 2025 Balance Changes [Explained]

Another complaint is there's not enough high level buccs. So their utility is just freely given away to another class with nothing to compensate for it; and as you point out yourself, less opportunities moving forward for them to actually participate in content because their spot is now given away. I've said it before, if your class can't/doesn't engage in low-mid range bosses, it's not going to encourage players to reach the endgame bosses.

 

Buccs remain a priceless commodity because of TL, pinning and their good dpm (when geared strongly) I don't really see this as a issue personally.

 

Multi-shadower standing on the body can ignore the pillars.

 

Cats out of the bag now, multi shad stonks

 

TL seems more of an end game commodity in pb and auf while i think timmy is saying its harder for buccs to get included in lower content to reach end game

 

multi shad gets like 4mins smoke uptime anyhow, but the multi NL zak farmers are gonna suffer the most. there arent that many of them though...

plus, i'm all for changes that makes you actually interact with the boss fight more.

 

Like you mentioned, Coma is practically unusable, at least after 3rd job, which feels like a serious violation to Hero's intended theme - I believe that Heroes in their current form are suffering from a very unfair treatment, or ignorance, which results in them having quite a vulnerable identity. (i.e. watk on Rage raised to 20 but Enrage kept at 26; Orbs on Panic reduced to 5 yet Coma forgotten at 10).
While it warms my soul to see Dark Knights slowly but surely starting to shine, my cleave keeps getting suffocated in return and our few niches in regards to Stun and le ''King of Cleave'' are starting to fade away, being rendered obsolete. While it might still be too early to plead for a watk buff or full rework in regards to Enrage, I still believe reducing the orb cost on Coma would be a tweak of minimal courtesy that would make for a splendid game-changer for Hero.
While Armour Crash is great and makes a lot of boss runs go faster while also being a crucial failsafe in case bishops die at auf/bga/ht (tbh hero is the main dispeller at bga), it's still only an adjacent type of skill to all warriors and having the whole class hinge on it is not an excuse to leave all of its other (MAIN) skills into the dark. A viable 6-target cleave for the ''Main Cleaver'' class isn't too much to ask for.

All in all, I think orb skills in general are very underused because of just how obscure they are when visualising the job's present active attacks and main audience, Brandish go brrr and brain go zzz...
t. Hero who's had to teach many of his fellow cavemen to use Panic

 

yah bucc balance as a whole is not bad, but buccs for new players are in a tough spot because 1)its not as nostalgic so not many even try it 2)dpm is shit with beginner/mid tier gear 3)pinning isn't needed in most of the relevant early/mid bosses 4)pinning full time requires heavy DPM sacrifices 5)TL/SI can be and are often muled, OH and most importantly 6)hp challenge on bucc is so bad no one can recommend it.

no wonder buccs are so unpopular...just look at knuckle scroll prices now

 

-50 pasta points for these BM takes, you must learn to adapt and overcome, and add some bonus smugness over staff for outwitting them.

Off the top of my head, it'll be optimal for archers to do a properly timed jump-strafe with either sticky keys or a good keyboard in order to dodge the pillar stun. The DPM loss just isn't there, probably only reaching a fraction of a percent. It'll probably be ideal on Bowmasters as they will be able to learn the proper hurricane release timing to consistently make the strafe jump, where there may be some attack timing discrepancies to overcome for Marksmen.

 

This may be the proper play but overall its just less of a reason to do zak

 

Ok wait if the zak pillars having their hitbox reduced means it turns into a "jump at the right time to avoid it" type thing then I actually like the sound of it. It's like a reverse Berga in a way. (if it still requires the rope then its zzzzzz)

Also I do appreciate the xp redistribution change for zak. Makes dcing feel even less bad.

 

Hmm i didnt really think about that, fair point.

 

Am I the only one noticing the hypocrisy here?

NLs getting their skill nerfed to the point where it very good skill becomes barely usable.

"Ohmergerd stop crying!@!!!@ You just become like every other classes!!!@@!"
"lmao imagine now having the same buff uptime as every other classes now omegalul"

Shifters and avoid getting specifically nerfed in zak, probably a test for other bosses as well, meaning in times to come NLs and Shads will be nerfed quite badly, with every other classes having the same slight unavoidable attack they need to move away from.

"WHAT A HUGE NERF TO ARCHER!!?!! LITERALLY UNPLAYABLE!!@!@! ZAK NOW TAKES 10 SECONDS MORE TO KILL!!!!!!!"

Fucking hell the crying man. And they say NL are the biggest crybabies.

Don't suggest a hard nerf to any class when you can't take any sort of nerf to your own. No one likes having their mains and favourite class to be shit on. Think of how to elevate certain things instead of asking for nerfs every single time.

 

looks like a skill issue.
buccs require skillful players.
if players are not skillful mule-SI instead.

 

There is far better ways to get that across but the main reason people (me) are complaining is because staff literally won't directly nerf NL, instead they keep trying to get creative with things and claiming casualties each time.

Nerf shifter, remove TT macro, nerf NL w.att scaling, NL avoid and voila, balance restored without casualties

It likely doesnt need all of that but shifter and macro change is probably a good start, every other class just feels bad when NL is the goat for practically everything

 

Thank you staff for another well thought out and interactive balance change. I'm excited to see more DK gameplay in the community and hope the next patch will make the class even more rewarding to play. Now we wait for maintenance to end :d

 

Just to revisit this, from what I perceive, the more "core" classes of Pallies, Marksmen, and Heroes still benefit from SI so would a DK buff really "snuff out" bucc mules?

DKs seemed to be in a similar boat as Buccs IMO as in they are not truly viable until mega late game (HT/PB) for HB & TL, so a small buff to DKs seems not too bad.

A specific nerf on a single class probably is not welcome in general by the community, so the BT probably has to do a little work around to not enrage a core population.
Also now that I think of it, I don't mind the shifter/avoid too much as long as more interactive design of bosses are included going forward.
The fun part of selecting different classes are that they each have distinct characteristics about them.

 

I do think this is a step in the right direction towards fixing the monstrosity that is warrior identities.

Since this change makes DK fully si independent, they slot in incredibly well into just about any party. Heroes and Pallies normally have to take the 1h pain train in higher funding and/or lower damage to have a fraction of lesser si dependence. At best the dk is still more relient on se than hero/pally, so who's to say which is actually more independent. I will say on paper I think a fully passive si at +2 is a tad *too* strong in such a framework, but perhaps shield mastery squad is willing to come to the negotiations table.

And on the point of coma since I've seen it mentioned a few times. Even if coma consumed 0 orbs and were spammable, it would be slightly more damage in 3-cleave than brandish but slightly LESS damage than brandish with se (fewer lines hit hard). This isn't the time/place to talk specifics of coma, but it would take much more than a simple 5-orb change to make it useable. As a hero enjoyer, the class is riddled with design flaws, yet playable; let's salvage our dk brethren first.

Fury stun is a very nice utility that will help it in grinding and be a viable pick for core. The hero (or armor crash flytrap) is still desirable to deal with defense up, but likewise pales in comparison to pally hh/stunning/damage. If hero was overshadowed by pally before, sticking dk between them shouldn't hurt heroes more than they already are. Speaking of fury, a 1 point wonder for spear fury, taking points from polearm fury, or sp washing into spear fury is now recommended. Still a better deal than the proposed slash blast, personally.

But what's really going to help dk is that increased achilles. A 30% damage reduction achilles is almost as good as achilles+power guard on touch against bosses. Yes dk gets that on all attacks, and even more reduction on elemental attacks, but they are also supposed to play with a little over half the hp of other warriors. Max damage for auf at 19k auf touch would get reduced to 13.3k, a very zerkable (albeit not free) threshold, and not one that has to be commonly taken by the dk. I doubt 55% is enough to reliably survive a sed especially as I believe dragon's blood is still dispellable, but that's what the potion button is for. As far as pb is concerned, they'll still best be operated as mules, but imo that is a thief problem, not a warrior problem as all 3 are capable with sufficient support. 30% achilles is right around the awkward value of sometimes maybe tanking a pb body touch @ 55% zerk, but they'll likely either take a small zerk penalty staying slightly higher or continue to active zerk anyways (this is my first time mentioning active because I dont think active needs to exist).

In all, I do fully believe this addresses the largest issues of the class, excluding the potential difficulty in reaching/maintaining the zerk threshold. Hopefully the "heal/dragon blood caps at zerk" change can find it's way in soon prayge. If the dk does become useable/survivable along the gamut of available content, then we can see if the damage is up to snuff or needs tweaking. But as is, I don't know that we'll see too many parties which don't explicitly need hb reject hero specifically for dk, unless there is se and no si (which is why I think the +2 speed may prove too strong).

 

In the endgame meta there is little reason to make a class that isn't pally, NL, bucc, or bishop unless you just genuinely enjoy a class and are willing to accept their faults.

NightLords are one of the most dominant classes currently so whenever an actual nerf comes around they're extremely vocal (refer to alchemist nerf thread)

I can understand why staff doesn't want to trigger the inevitable backlash but at this point there isn't many other realistic changes that can be dome without shifting the balance in an unintended manner.

The multi attack issue they're focused on can largely be fixed simply by nerfing NL, and Pally specifically instead we see alot of these other creative changes. I do agree with theclammiest with regards to making bosses more interactive being a good thing, but I don't really see this directly as a fix to the multi-attack even if it were applied to HT, PB, etc. Its more just an obstacle that can be overcome by either being lazy (not dodging) tanking body touch (multi shad) or muling extra shields.

In hindsight I think the change isn't actually as impactful to archers as I first made out but instead corsairs may be in a even worse spot now (this is completely dependent on how it was implemented, whether they can boat, move, boat in time)

This is also kind of a peanuts because sairs have no avoid anyways (when sair buffs?)

I also don't really see multi attack as big of an issue as some forum members get across but it's Kimmy's server after all to change and adapt how she see's fit anyways

 

I love these changes! Please keep up the good work BT

anyone opposed to these challenges is just bad at the game or uneducated, idk what else to say :^)