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Forum disagree reply functionality

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Myungsoo, Aug 20, 2021.

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  1. OP
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    Myungsoo
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    Myungsoo Slimy

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    I actually agree with you for the most part. The argument I'm fighting isn't (what a lot of people keep attacking the strawman for) that I'm upset about someone disagreeing with my post. The argument I'm fighting is that someone could litterally ask a question and someone will disagree with you for the sake of not liking a previous comment you've made. That's abusing the system. I'm fighting abuse. I'm not fighting ''boy I wish people agreed with me more''. Because I do not care about that. Perhaps my image in the original post was debetable but that's not the point and that's what people keep fighting because it is not.

    The Mac Donalds analogy you used is a little bit questionable to me. Perhaps that's a misunderstanding on my part which I am more than willing to admit because I understand the logic. Although I believe is slightly flawed in a sense that you can't disagree with someone elses enjoyment, unless we're in kindergarten. Anyway, point being is that the disagreement function is used as something else, much like a lot of other functionality.

    The point you've layed out in the analogy exactly described what I try to get across. You don't disagree with the person enjoying Mac Donalds, you don't like Mac Donalds. A dislike button would have a much more effective argument in your analogy because who cares what you like or dislike. A disagreement is completely different because I don't understand WHY you disagree, so what purpose does it serve if you blindly press this button and it's just hanging there while no one has any logical context whatsoever.

    TL;DR
    Long story short, the whole purpose of this thread is that I don't like to see abuse and like I said, perhaps my image wasn't the best example because I can see why people missunderstand my use of words, but there are many other examples I'm sure you've seen yourself where posts are being disagreed that were better off being either disliked or not replied to at all because there was nothing really to disagree to. Only to dislike. You can't disagree that I enjoyed Mac Donalds. You can dislike it.

    Can we please stop saying people ''should'' reply? I never said or intended that. All I said was that it would be a better option to explain yourself. Feel free to argue that it is a worse option but please stop arguing things that were never written. It's starting to get redundant.
     
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  2. Jafel
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    Jafel Capt. Latanica

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    Your point can be condensed to: people should not be allowed to abuse ratings on the forums in spite because someone did or said something before they didn't like.

    However, that is already not allowed, so if you want to fight this or combat this, you could come up with a suggestion that would combat this. Unless someone is clearly spamming disagrees, it is hard to truly prove that someone is abusing ratings. Which makes this a suggestion that is both already in the rules and hard to enforce.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. Nightz
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    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    While no one likes to experience abuse and I don't think anyone can disagree with you on that, I think we sometimes add too much value to ratings on an emotional level. There shouldn't be any pain or gain from reactions on a small private server forum.

    A dislike button wouldn't be all too bad for this but since there currently isn't one available it's only logical that Disagree kinda goes hand in hand with disliking something at times even though it shouldn't.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
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  4. Precel
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    Precel Zakum Retired Staff

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    I'll build upon the analogy I made because I made a mistake by saying "I can still disagree with you if I don't like the suggestion", which you argued isn't the same as disagree. My intention with the analogy is that regardless of how correct you are, I can still disagree with you. Thus, I'll rephrase this sentence to "I can still disagree with you if I don't think the suggestion is good" to be more clear of what I meant.

    To expand on the example...
    I could have multiple reasons for disagreeing to go to McDonald's. Please note that these are hypothetical.
    1. I most likely will get unhealthy food from McDonald's, which counteracts my exercise
    2. McDonald's will affect my finances
    3. McDonald's is far and I don't have a reliable transportation
    4. I already have food at home, so it would be redundant for me to get food from McDonald's
    5. I had McDonald's yesterday so I probably won't even enjoy it as much
    6. I have to see my friend soon, and going to McDonald's would make me late
    Now, I don't need to list all this out to say I disagree with going to McDonald's. I can simply say "you shouldn't go to McDonald's" and leave it at that. There was nothing wrong in the logic of wanting to go to a McDonald's as much as there's nothing wrong with me disagreeing to it.

    You stated "Although I believe is slightly flawed in a sense that you can't disagree with someone elses enjoyment" but this has nothing to do with the point I'm making. It doesn't matter who's speaking and who's disagreeing, or what the topic is, because my point is that the logic can still be disagreed no matter how correct it is. You can bring the most factual statement to me and I can still disagree with you, with or without other facts or reasons. It's also unwise to trust on your own logic - even the smartest people have their facts and knowledge cross-checked by others.

    I didn't explain all this before because I wanted to keep the example vague for the sake of delivering the point that I can agree or disagree without listing out the reasons. This point still stands. You may not understand why I disagree, but unfortunately the world is unfair and that is quite frankly none of my problem.

    EDIT: to add on, if you wanted to prevent people from abusing reactions to meme or to harass someone, you should instead consider what makes it an abuse and suggest to punish such behavior. Suggesting to remove an entire reaction is an overkill for a minor population abusing the feature. By the same logic, LPQ should've been gone years ago when people used to be able to aggro abuse Alishar. That would have been absurd, as is your suggestion.
     
  5. OP
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    Myungsoo
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    Myungsoo Slimy

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    You could use the same theory the way around. Because sometimes it's better to remove something entirely. For example in terms of Maplestory, equip enhancement scrolls were removed entirely from the game until something better was found to avoid abuse. This theory honestly goes in both directions. So to call it absurd because it doesn't fit your narrative is futile. Taking the moral high ground doesn't really help a productive debate. Perhaps, look at the funny reply function. We've got rid of it. Why? Most likely because people abused it, and it definitely was. Kimberly has already clarified this.

    I agree with you that you could theoretically disagree with someone based on their Mac Donalds preferences, but then we're really attacking the straw man again. Because this post wasn't about whether you could theoretically disagree with someone, this post is about abuse, which I'm pretty sure I've clarified by now.
     
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  6. Huiae
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    Huiae Headless Horseman

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    By what right and logic you judge others disagreement as abuse or not?

    Can you sure you won't be wrong at all?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Jafel
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    Jafel Capt. Latanica

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    Myungsoo's original post was not about determining whether a disagree is abuse or not. They were personally under the impression someone gave them an unwarranted disagree. Their reaction was to just outright remove all ratings.

    However, this is not how that works. If you think of ratings abuse as some kind of retaliation or petty behavior, it's essentially a form of passive aggressive online bullying. Trust me when I say that when one avenue of online bullying gets removed, there's plenty left. Removing ratings because they can be abused is a bit extreme. Additionally, any true value of these ratings is not found in the ratings (unless you highly value your own self-worth based on a reflection of what others think of you on an online forum), kimmy mentioned they won't look at ratings specifically for suggestions to be or not be implemented. And outside of the suggestion board, there really isn't much to gain or lose this way.

    If you think someone is harrassing you through ratings, you might as well send them a private message on the forums asking for an explanation. That will either provide proof, closure, or it will get ignored (which leaves you where you left off). If you think someone harrassed you, and you think you have plenty proof, might as well report it to the mods. We have moderation for a reason, and just removing all features from a forum because features can be used for goals outside their intended use is not the solution.
     
    • Like Like x 2
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  8. Pepper
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    Pepper Wolfspider

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    It seems that this thread is the result of your assumption that you received an unwarranted disagree because you believe they don't like you or are judging you by a past post you made. However it seems to me you are judging others opinions and intentions only because you don't know why they disagree. You are putting too much emotional value in a disagree button. If you feel this person has an issue with you I would suggest talking out your problems with them and if harrassment is truly occurring, reach out to staff. The entirety of forums should not be muted from their opinions because of your feelings of being targeted. This is a personal issue.

    As for funny react, this literally was being used to laugh at people and people were saying on discord they were purposely acting in a manner to get funny reacts so this seems more abuse to me than you assuming someone else's intentions of their opinion.
     
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  9. OP
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    Myungsoo Slimy

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    Well this comment in itself in an assumption, and the assumption is wrong. I have over 30 disagrees on the initial post and I could not care less because I know it wasn't with the intention of abuse.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  10. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    Closed by request.
     
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