Give players who are lv90/100+ options to level up

The concept that people need to plan ahead in order to progress, that people need to pay money for others to train them in order to progress efficiently, are all antithetical to a healthy fun game that retains players. The concept that people should start with mages/HS because it's not only most optimal, but because it makes the rest of the game bearable does not make for a healthy game.

It is the not so different than someone making a hermit and then realizing they've wasted all the time and energy leveling their character because they didn't wash and get 1 shotted by anything that sneezes at them. People waste time on a useless character-> people quit. People waste time not making a mage -> people quit.

People here do not think from the perspective of new/casual players or game developers.

1. People need to HP wash -> People do less damage
2. Potions are made more expensive -> harder to grind
3. The most efficient way of training is paying someone else to train you
4. There is a way to "play the game optimally" and that's to make a mage first

All of these are not good for any maple server, they are not good at fostering community interactions, it is a game where mages dominate the economy. All this is an unnecessary gate that puts people in a slog when it comes to progressing, it leads them to realize what an ugly and stale meta the game is in, leading to them more likely to quit.

Indicating that people can just do things like hunt cards or do obscure quests or buy leech and people need to plan is laughable, absurd, and highly elitist. It's also toxic too because it's also telling people just do this other stuff, we don't care if you quit.

People play an old school maplestory server to experience the nostalgia, to play the stuff they wanted to play when they were kids but go further. These make up the great majority of casual players. These make up the majority of your low leveled players. To them, the primary hallmark of progression is levels, and being able to achieve end game content that they could not achieve. MapleLegends is the only popular old school server where progression is slower than old school GMS at this level area. Even trashass Royals can progress players faster in this level area, not only due to 4x exp but because they have actual content dedicated for players at this level.

As a new player of 1 month and one of few people with enough degenerate patience to play through this game, I see how my guild mates are. I joined at lvl 70, and everyone else was a similar level if not higher. I progressed from 65 to 4th job in 3 weeks and not a SINGLE other person has made it past 110. I guess it was unreasonable for me to expect them to level at even half the pace I did. But hey, game was too slow and boring for them and I suspect many will quit.

As I said, and I'll say it again. Anything justifying people quitting because the game is too slow, boring, or expensive before they've even experienced the majority of the content is antithetical to a game, where people are supposed to have fun and we are all better off with more people playing, and fewer mules.

 

How did pots get more expensive for low level/ low wash players? I thought only the % pots got a higher price.

 

The 3rd job experience was designed specifically for party play - and that includes grinding as well. The problem is grinding is not built in to the system and explained via NPCs, so it requires people to actually explore various maps/party compositions, which apparently is a tall order for this community.

Just for frame of reference, when 3rd job was released in GMS, so was Ludibrium. Ludi has a ton of big, open maps which allowed for platform party play. MapleLegends has these very same maps WITH portals and increased respawn. If you're lost on what to do, I would suggest exploring these maps with a group of 3 or 4 attackers and a priest that can HS and mob. The typical arrangement was each platformer would pay the bishop at least 1 Equipment drop an hour of party play so that they get some sort of compensation.

Can't afford pots? Go grind in maps that give you safe spots like in Ludi/Magatia or go hire a priest.

 

so u complain cuz about grinding by urself and u also complain about leech. u complain cuz pots are expensive and u complain about inflation. u complain about needing hs and u complain about creating a priest. and guess what u still complain about washing even after staff saying they gonna fix it.
i dont think the problem is on the server....

 

Are you being dense on purpose?

 

Could the game be easier? Yes. Should the game be easier? Probably not.

 

Asking for the late game to be more accessible is not unreasonable.

The gap between 3rd job and 4th job is slower/more boring/more uninteresting than literally any other facet of the game.

That doesn't make any sense, from player or design perspective.

Paying others to train you being by far the best way to progress is not good design.

The game should be hard and grindy, sure, but at the tail-end of the game. Min-maxing should not change. That remains hard. It should not be absurdly ridiculous in the early-mid game.

The purpose of a game is for people to have fun and keep people playing. The late 3rd job early 4th job gap is unreasonably boring/slow in comparison to both the phases before and after. Misconstrueing it as simple "make game easier" is disingenuous.

And I find it funny how people like to keep their elitist opinions when the staff already recognize how problematic some of these issues are when they've already outlined and have done things to make the game more casual and newplayer friendly. From removal of pay to win, to HP washing and defense rework, and their plan to actually implement something in this level range, it's clear that the staff understand and realize that these issues turn players away.

I guess people who spend most of their time on maplelegends and stay within their tiny entourage of people just like to belittle other people and their issues with "git gud" on these forums. After all what game needs new players right?

And somehow we have people pretending that a few more people being able to access the late game is objectionable.

 

You think we're on opposing sides, but we're really not. The gap between 3rd and 4th job is slow, sure, but it's not even close to being the slowest part of the game. It takes over 400 horntail runs to grind from 170-200. That's nearly 600 hours invested with party play involved. 3rd job - 4th job takes less than 100 hours solo, and even less than that if optimized.

You're chalking up 3rd job like it's some hill you need to climb over when the reality is the entire journey from 1-200 goes uphill.

Could the game play be more fun? Sure. Should the game play be more fun? Sure why not. Time consuming and fun don't have to be mutually exclusive, but it's being heavily conflated here, as usual.

 

How can anybody in good faith claim that this server is slower than old school GMS? Unless you are comparing it to the big bang patch where the exp was made baby mode, legends is 10,000% faster than GMS was. And yet it's that same difficulty that is so "antithetical" that drew people to this server. An old school experience that will actually last more than a day (although power creep has been definitely heading in that direction lately). If players wanted a high rate, guilty-pleasure server, then they'd play one.

And then be done in a week. How exactly does that help player retention when everybody is endgame?

How.... elitist. "These guys don't know how to design a good game, let alone PLAY one. Does this game even HAVE the instant 4th job button?? Mom!!" If you think it's grindy now, just wait until you hear about 7f.

The only two places I can find common ground on are that variety (not speed) of options are limited, and that leeching is too good. But the latter isn't exactly a hot take around here. We could use more community-building content to close out late 3rd/early 4th, but it'll also just be drowned out by leech anyways, unless it's faster than leech, and that's bad. Really bad.

Faster game = fewer player interactions = worse community = ded game. No matter how fAsT it was, I would've quit this server within a month of starting years ago if I didn't meet folks playing game. My goal was to play an MMORPG of my childhood, which needs two things directly taken from its name: other players (Multiplayer) and gameplay (Playing Game). Emphasis on the playing part. And as painful as it sounds, grinding IS the game.

Look into what makes other grindfests like OSRS so popular to this day, Game Developer. If we're simply handed easy progress, there's no fulfillment, no joy, no game.

 

The old school GMS experience had CPQ and LMPQ. They're faster than LPQ, OPQ, and PPQ. Sure there's problems with that, but yes in that regard it's faster if not much less monotonous.

This server is 2x, sure. But old school GMS had 2x events, 2x coupons, and family reps, and that paytowin MapleTrade System. Also people didnt wash so they did more damage. So it was more efficient for kids who played on the weekend to train back then where you could reasonably grind to 120 and beyond.

Where exactly did I say "insta 120 button". That just making a fake strawman and toppling it.

 

We have LMPQ. Nobody does it because it sucks.

And when you are comparing to other servers, it might as well be instant 4th job. That's how they play.

NEXT

 

This is just you saying you don't play other servers.

Saying Royals being instant 4th job is laughable.

DreamMS is faster, but mostly because it's more fun, more addicting, and less lonely. If it weren't for the fact that Dream isn't nostalgic, I'd be playing that. It is objectively more fun. They're #4 on GTOP with a very healthy player and voting base that isn't hyperinflated with mules or the need to vote on multiple accounts.

Pretending that people spend a single week on a server it's 3rd job 4th job gap is a little bit faster than MapleLegends is highly disingenuous.

As you said...

NEXT

 

laughable is hearing a 1 month old player talking like he knows everything about the server and also every single change we need

 

If you really need a player who has been here for years to say it—3rd through early 4th is unnecessarily long and grindy. I’ll admit I don’t agree with every point they make, but that doesn’t mean every single point they make is useless.

170-200 is not a fair comparison at all. It’s grindier, but every MMO has a point of diminishing returns. What’s strange about old school maple is that there is also a point in the middle of the game where returns on grinding are diminished excessively. All we are advocating for is that the returns curve be made more consistent and uniform.

 

But I didn't disagree with the idea itself. I just disagreed with some arguments I quoted that were used to defend it.
Besides, there are a lot of level ranges that people will grind much faster than others, and it also depends on the job. You must know that a fp mage will have a hard time (probably the worst one) by grinding through 2nd job til lv80, but then it will be making 3x more exp than a lv110 leech (probably the easiest one).
That isnt weird, that's just a particularity of the class. This is nostalgic and this is why most people play ML, the journey is important.
I hope there will never be a insta 4th job button like this guy is asking.

 

After 135 you just go 7f and the same bosses, game is alot more interesting before it.
ML is extremly easy to level on early levels , if you think leveling on these levels is hard and you want a level boost for 135, i'll wait here for your next suggestion of decreasing 95% of the exp needed of later levels beucase it took 1 month to level.
You don't need to be level 300 to have fun, if you think 3rd job is annoying just leech, the game can't be fixed just for bienfu.
The game is designed to be slow and thats why it is so rewarding, if you can't play legends with : gachapon as a mob drop, revamped mob drops, insane amount of respawn increases, teleporters on the map, OP items extremly cheap and exported maps who gives like 8x more exp than the .63 ones, sorry, the problem is not the server.
In one day you unlock all of your job quests btw, its not even a point
If you want to do things you never could do as a kid you have alot of options:
Play with the meta
Regular play everyday till you get your achievements
Just buy leech with the gacha drops lol
Honestly i believe in a good change for levels 105~125 grind, but nothing you typed here even make sense

 

This habit of just slapping a disagree on anyone who comments truly is helping this thread.

 

Probably because people are being dense and using strawman arguments.

"Insta 4th job"... jesus christ, clowns everywhere

 

The elitism oozes here. Also irrelevant because you would attack the person instead of the ideas. I, at the very least, am coming from experience of multiple servers.

The new player experience matters, and most new players aren't going to go on the Forums. Hey, but sure go ahead and enjoy your circle jerk, you probably cant be bothered by low levels.