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How long are you allowed to hold an HT channel?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by jesscapades, Aug 10, 2020.

  1. mantouks
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    mantouks Slime

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    In situation 1, I would say camping for a channel and idling would count as grieving and thus warrants a warning or ban. I think there's some grey area, so I'd say the warning was a good call.

    In situation 2, it's hard to judge how long they've been setting up before going in, and how long they were inside but have not summoned pre-head. It could have been <5 mins or they thought it was, but in actuality was a bit longer. If you think from the perspective of a squad waiting outside, the squad inside could very well be just camping and idling (just like situation 1), so it was an obvious call to involve a GM. I'm not sure if the GM that handled the situation communicated with both sides, but it seemed like a misunderstanding/miscommunication that could have been handled better. If anything, GM could have just told them to leave, and then it's just FFA. The bummer is that the host got jailed, so they couldn't run even after they got out.

    I'd agree with having a 5 minutes timer at prehead 1 that will boot people out if it's not summoned, but I'm not sure if that will stop people from idling in a channel. Say, if a player with 2 cave mules takes turn occupying, one inside with the 5 mins timer and one outside waiting to snipe once timer is up, wouldn't that still be grieving like in situation 1?

    I agree that the issue now is that at certain time slots there are just too many squads trying to run ht. A short-term solution could be to bring forward/backward runs 1-2h to avoid having to fight for channels. It would be nice to hear a proposed solution from the staff though.

    Hold up. What's with the holier-than-thou attitude? Okay, we get it, you hold yourself to a very high moral standard and you've earned the respect of others around you. I'd say I'm a kind person too, and I'd do things for others without expecting any return but I also understand that others are not obliged to be nice to you. Kindness is always welcomed but it's simply not realistic to expect everyone around you to be unconditionally kind towards you. Wouldn't it be nice to be an asshole and people are still nice to you? Wouldn't it be nice if people don't judge you based on one decision you made that one time, as if that one incident is going to send you straight to hell? Wouldn't it be nice if the world was Cadbury?

    Just so we're clear here, is sniping a channel to run HT an actual offence or are you just deciding that it is a mistake in your books? Genuine question.

    Not that it matters, but I'll make it clear that I've never sniped a HT channel, but I've been in a run where the channel was "sniped". I'd concede that it is stressful and frustrating to not have a channel available, if anything, that's what will drive a player to snipe a channel. Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with sniping a channel to run HT though I also think the term "sniping" is loosely defined here.

    Does it count as sniping if a squad comes out after their 1st run and is taking a break? I don't think so? What about if the squad outside isn't ready and have missing members but my entire squad is present? Would you consider these to be against your morals? So then what makes the channel theirs, and not available for other squads to "snipe"?

    Okay, so you're advocating for name shaming and painting a target on someone's back for sniping channels when it's not even against ToS? What happened to "you need to walk in their shoes" and "doing right by people"? I'm really confused here. Also, just so you know, anyone can snipe the channel, not just hosts.

    Hosting a run is not easy. I'd say as a host, you bear the pressure of ensuring the success of your run. You think not getting to run HT as an attacker is frustrating? Imagine how stressful it is for a host, having gathered 11 (assuming 12 man HT run) other people from possibly different timezones and not having a channel to run on. You see a channel available, and the squad outside is not ready to go. What's stopping you from starting the sign ups? Your morals? Roles reversed, do you actually think another squad would pass up the opportunity and give up on their run?

    Say you're the host and you decide not to take that channel. What happens to the 11 other people you've gathered? Either run is cancelled, or 11 people agree to wait and surf channels for the next available channel. If you're a runner and you pull out from the run because the channel was sniped, I'd say you're just grieving others on your run.

    By "others" I assume you're referring to other members in the community right? I'd say I value the feelings of my host/runners and not grief a run by pulling out from the run when a channel is finally available.

    I highly doubt this is feasible. Staff members are not going to be free 24/7 enforcing this. How are we gonna ensure all HT hosts actually "book" a slot and stick to the schedule?

    I'll just end saying that we all need to take a chill pill and stop pointing fingers at each other. It's unfortunate that there isn't an empty channel when you planned to run, but that's not someone else's fault. We're all facing the same problem. As I mentioned before, before there's an actual solution (like more channels or something) you can always schedule the run slight before/after your usual timing to stagger the HT run timings. There are also plenty of things to do in-game. If HT getting too frustrating, stop going on runs and do other things for a while. The recent name (& guild) shaming is uncalled for. We're all just here to have fun, no need to spread gossips and hate.
     
    • Agree Agree x 21
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  2. s0mething
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    s0mething Capt. Latanica

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    So you’re saying Group A is entitled to a second run and Group B should be penalized for it?
     
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  3. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    You should look deeper into how the human psyche regresses towards the justification of vices.

    >I don't want to kill people.
    >I will not kill people unless they harm me, but killing is bad.
    >It is okay to kill in self-defense.
    >If others are killing, then it makes sense to kill before they can kill me or others.
    >It is strategic to kill them before they can kill me.
    >Killing evil people is justified, ergo, killing is okay.

    These are all rational and justifiable sentiments. Which strategy you land on can serve as a litmus test to how bad things are becoming.
     
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  4. s0mething
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    s0mething Capt. Latanica

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    Please. This has already turned into a:
    - physics/math course with all the dpm and avoid calculations
    - defense class with attorney NiseNise <3

    Now you want it to turn it into a psychiatric evaluation?
     
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  5. RegalStar
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    RegalStar Nightshadow

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    I would think so, yes. There are factors like Group A would have HT buff for a limited time that they'd like to make use of or the fact that group A has only 1 run left would make the channel open up faster, but most importantly Group B would literally have to start a fight with Group A to do the next run on that channel in this case, while the default state of the matter for Group A would be that they don't have to fight with anyone in particular to start their second run. This is in the same vein as why most people would agree that someone in a map first should be entitled to some kind of ownership for that map, and based on the fact that this server has a custom mechanic that helps enforce this, clearly that's the same kind of mentality that this server encourages.
     
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  6. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    What makes one group of runners entitled to two runs while another gets 0? Wouldn't it be more fair to give each group 1 run?
    The game already has a mechanic of determining ownership of the channel, and that is through the sign-up NPC.
     
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  7. s0mething
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    s0mething Capt. Latanica

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    upload_2020-8-10_9-59-28.jpeg
     
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  8. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    I suggested this as a best-case scenario with the infeasibility in mind. Staff seems to be hoping for some miraculous cultural shift, but I don't think this is possible without any sort of assistance. It's even more unreasonable to demand change without laying out clear guidelines and expectations. Moreover, banning people for taking things into their own hands while still acting within the existing rules -- to me -- is unconscionable and unfair.
     
  9. Blu301
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    Blu301 Pac Pinky

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    so the key to keeping your HT channel between runs now is to immediately start your second run after you finish the first, kill prehead #1, then take your group break

    thank u, thank u if you'd like to thank me you can duey many stacks of mana elixir pills to ign Serperior
     
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  10. s0mething
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    s0mething Capt. Latanica

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    Or you can start your first run at 11:59 PM servertime
     
  11. Vowels
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    Vowels Slimy

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    "stealing a channel" doesn't exist in horntail cave wtf. I'ts just people will feel the channel belongs to them only because they were running there, there's no mapowner, it's like claiming a public area belongs to you. I think it's fair game and everyone should be able to compete on getting a channel, seems completely alright and it's part of the horntail experience. Squads should be able to try to get a channel if they really need to, and if they are succesful the other party should never take it personal, they should just say well played, isn't that good sportsmanship?

    And if it's fair game, the only problem is the senseless feelings of injustice that goes through the mind of some players that take it personal and make the situation a problem bigger than what it is (lack of channels). Some of this self-righteous people will instantly judge the sniper and procede to shame the snipers and their guilds through every possible mean: smegas, game chats, discord servers, I've even seen a shitlist.jpg going around discord servers lmao. Like wtf if you group lost a channel well alright gg, but don't be a vengeful crybaby about it? just take the loss. It's quite ironic that some ppl shit where they eat and then go around claiming WHERES THE DECENCY! kek
     
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  12. s0mething
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    s0mething Capt. Latanica

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    #vowelsforpresident #vowels2020
     
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  13. AioriaX
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    AioriaX Selkie Jr.

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    Damn this throws me way back to memory lane where HT could only be run in one channel and ONLY Channel 8 in MapleSEA.
    Back then squads had WEEKLY schedules posted in forums just to arrange slots for different squads to run. And if you're late for your squad and invade into someone else's slot, or someone steals the squad slot, you get blacklisted from the whole Horntail community (which are like the community of high level players).
     
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  14. Oradious
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    Oradious Mr. Anchor

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    boomers blaming someone else for not getting a channel with their slow fingers smh
     
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  15. iPippy
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    iPippy Nightshadow

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    Finishing a ht run and trying to start another is like smega-ing that you have finished an hour of leech on a popular map, walking into fm, and hoping it's still there when you return.
     
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  16. Crayo
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    Crayo Chronos

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    Trying to set up some sort of community courtesy system like some people seem to want is impossible. No matter how many unofficial rules the community agrees on, people will do whatever they can to go around them. Especially when you have some people with multiple cave mules who can and will easily outcamp you on multiple chs for hours if necessary. Even if we all agree no one will ever snipe between runs again or snipe from someone who has sign up or enter the map without summoning ht, then people will instead just start camping with sign up spam hours beforehand and there will never be an open ht ch at reset again.

    Instead of shaming people just accept that HT is not any more sacred than lpq. Over time people will just end up shifting their run times to not have to deal with the competition anyway.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  17. aaronis
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    aaronis Slimy

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    Why is Horntail some sacred place where you have the rights to it for 4 hours, but every other map is FFA when its available lol, like how is it different than the LPQ or KPQ days where there were too many people for channels or ulu2 where you lose your map if you're afk for 6 minutes even if you've held it for 17 hours straight, or even an FM spot you've held for 21 days. Like yea your time is valuable, but is mine not, if every group is on their first run should I have to start my horntail 3 hours later because I'm not allowed to take any channels lol. At least since its free for all we all have a fair chance of taking the channel. Besides I've never seen a group just do 2 horntails in a row without breaks, so wouldn't it be more efficient if we let the group that is ready to start right away take the map instead of group 1 just holding it and waiting around for 10 minutes to take their break.

    Personally I think we really just need more channels so we can just all run or make it so somehow its not a one per channel thing, since the longer this keeps on the more internet mushroom game drama is gonna happen since as we can all clearly see by the smegas that go on every day, people here aren't able to be mature about things and have to start super megaphone drama over having slow hands. Like taking a horntail map ain't personal so idk why people are making it like this personal thing where you're personally trying to screw over the runners on the channel lol, I'm just trying to play the video game lmao I really don't care about you guys that much sorry.
     
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  18. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    I'm reminded of when I was in elementary school, playing kickball at recess, when one kid kicked a foul. Another kid, who wasn't playing, picked it up, and when a player motioned for him to throw the ball back, the kid ignored it. He was told something along the lines of "That's our ball" by one of the kickball players, and the kid who took the ball responded with "It's the school's ball". It eventually led to a tug of war, then the kid who took the ball on the ground, then some screeching and crying until one the teachers found us. We didn't get to continue the game either, mostly because a lot of folks ran off when they realized a teacher would be coming.

    The game was ruined, it's the only real take-away from that interaction. From a technical standpoint, the kid who took the ball was right, it didn't belong to them anymore than it belonged to him. But it fails to grasp at common courtesy and didn't give an empathetic approach to the players, as it's an equation that chooses to forget the existence of other people.
     
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  19. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    The anecdote doesn't have to end there. Am I wrong to presume that, after this incident, there continued to be future games of kickball? In this instance, could you not consider the teacher's action to be wrong for punishing both sides without establishing a clear code of conduct or not using it as a teachable moment to allow for compromise between two bitter ends?
     
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  20. aaronis
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    aaronis Slimy

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    Isn't it more like you had the ball at recess and got to play with it and then at lunch you try to get the ball again but other kids got it faster and you're complaining that you deserve the ball after you've already had it earlier because you feel like you deserve it all day. Like other people wana play with the ball noone's trying to be a dick here lol. Your example is like in gms someone barging in to your map when you're just killing skelegons and saying the map doesn't belong to anyone, like yea you're right but you're also an asshole.
     
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