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How to fix hh mules without screwing over paladins

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by kalash, Aug 31, 2020.

  1. kalash
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    kalash Headless Horseman

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    So, hh mules have been a huge issue and paladins have had many nerfs because of it. Poor guys.. however, have you noticed how hh mules are always staying at one spot and use like 300 honsters in a run? Yeah they're full luk! Have you also noticed how people owning a regular paladin don't bring them in as mules because that's too expensive?

    Look at that. You probably already see the solution. Just make heavens hammer damage based with a huge multiplier such that unfunded or low funded paladins still hit max dmg, but full luk paladins don't work. That'll allow you to revert the 50k dmg and 15 second timer.

    Please stop kicking our paladin dogs, they're already down..

    This suggestion still needs some work, but this way we can stop most hh mules (or at least make them way more expensive to create and use) and keep our paladin friends viable.

    Edit: Note that if hh would be actual damage, damage reduction would also affect the low level hh mules disabling them even more.
     
    • Agree Agree x 13
    • Like Like x 1
  2. KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    11:07 AM
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    Make it like post big bang where on bosses you do a certain %, perhaps like blast 600% so funded paladin can stil ldestroy on bosses with HH, and make it go back to 10 secs why not. Mules are dead now:
    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. LurkinShadow
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    LurkinShadow Mixed Golem

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    12:07 PM
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    I see OP's concern based, since HH's description involves % of hit just like Blast or any other attacking skill. Means that main Pallies that chose to pump main stats (STR/DEX) will hit (hard) as intended.

    chrome_5WjKBqWPw2.png chrome_jjl9oeTaTe.png
    Source: https://bbb.hidden-street.net/character/class/paladin
     
  4. OP
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    kalash
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    kalash Headless Horseman

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    Yep that's the description which was concerning to me when I made my hh mule. Later I found out that those % mean nothing and it's cap dmg all around anyhow. If this % is actually implemented that has the potential to solve the entire problem
     
  5. Selquin
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    Selquin Headless Horseman

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    Now I can't speak for everyone, but wouldn't all of the current HH mule users just remake their HH mules but with str this time? Certainly the pot cost would be much higher, but the extra DPM is still very much worth it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. LurkinShadow
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    LurkinShadow Mixed Golem

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    I think capping HH at 200k or so is needed to balance this job (Yeah, don't forget some extra thick numbers dealt to a single target) whilst implementing % on damage as description suggests. As I view it, LUK pallies are just a form of outsmarting and are totally mules. Capping HH to 50k hurts these mules but overkills users that chose to main Pallies. I rather have a mule suffer than a main and that's very logical. (mules can still become mains; the feature of resetting is present!)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. OP
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    kalash
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    kalash Headless Horseman

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    That's what I thought of at first too, but at some point the effort it takes to make a proper mule with proper dmg should yield rewards imo. If you train a pally up to lvl 160 and have it wear atk gears, I don't see why you shouldn't be allowed to use it. Same for making two NLs and using them simultaneously, but that's a bit (not that much) harder to do consistently while being cheaper to use than a str hh mule
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  8. Huiae
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    Huiae Headless Horseman

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    I'm completely agree with making HH mule with understable amount of effort. before nerf, making lv.130 HH mules with luk-pumped, using very small amounts of pots, and doing massive dmg compared with other classes where are similar status, NO. But making a genuine pally 160+ which is ready to HT normally, and using it as mule, with multiclienting, why not? it's effort enough to do that, and should be rewarded.

    (Honestly I never even imagined such Luk-pally HH mules. after I come back, I heard it from PRADA, and he told me it's not a april fools joke, it's actual meta. I was so shocked and thought he's making me fool first. ahaha)

    As many guys told over and over, I also hope pallies HH follows range-based dmg on bosses. I'm not sure this is codeable or not, but with resonable % dmg, I expect this solution can satisfy quite a lot of people.

    Too much broken meta should be fixed of course, but also meta shouldn't be forced and fixed by staff teams will. Finding such stuffs are also parts of fun of playing games. Just personal opinion.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Selquin
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    Selquin Headless Horseman

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    I suppose that makes sense, although I would be somewhat jaded that my lvl 177 luk pally which I definitely put more effort to create than most pally mains on the server would become unable to capitalize off of HH damage purely because I added luk instead of str. Of course, I would prefer that over fully nerfed HH, and I would probably begrudgingly remake the HH mule.
     
  10. Voxtagrams
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    Voxtagrams Headless Horseman

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    I don't think so.. it just depends more on which job the mules are.. They'll get buffs or reverted sometime later on, probably..
     
  11. OP
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    kalash Headless Horseman

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    You could work in voting on that account and resetting it gradually. If you've got some op secondary gear that'd help your dpm out a lot
     
  12. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Something I mentioned in another thread: https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/summer-2020-balance-changes-explained.33652/

    Also the skill % in the description is a lie. There is no damage scale with that skill at all. It's completely hard coded :p
     
  13. OP
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    kalash Headless Horseman

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    That's a very good point. However, isn't it so that even poison mist cast (which does cast dmg before the dmg over time) can never kill mobs? You could use that dmg type and then you've got your solution I suppose.

    Or make it an all powerful damage over time that affects bosses (an op ninja storm before the "fix"?), but expires after a millisecond allowing it only to a single tick. That way it'll never be able to kill anything while being damage % based.
     
    • Creative Creative x 1
  14. iccqqq
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    iccqqq Dark Stone Golem

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    ban multiclient make teamplay great again :cautious:
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  15. Vowels
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    Vowels Mr. Anchor

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    I would totally do a STR HH mule even if I the pots cost is higher, is just too good
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. fahad
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    fahad Mushmom

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    There is a way to make heavens hammer good for pallies, and hard to abuse with mules, make HH have a faster animation, and less cooldown!!!!!!!!!!!! With and damage should be scaled by str or range
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
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  17. Huiae
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    Huiae Headless Horseman

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    [​IMG]
     
  18. fahad
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    fahad Mushmom

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  19. MarcC
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    MarcC Pink Teddy

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    To counteract the whole idea of HH mules being able to pump their AP into STR is to find a wonky formula that rewards base Weapon Attack more than STR or DEX (capping everything at 200k). This way if people want their HH mule(s) to deal great damage they need to wield a good weapon, cape, etc
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  20. Huiae
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    Huiae Headless Horseman

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    With my heart, I hope you understand, balance isn't simple like "plus and minus, so it'll be even"......
     

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