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HP washing questions

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by TheDude, Mar 3, 2017.

  1. OP
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    TheDude
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    TheDude Selkie Jr.

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    Canada, eh?
    5:21 AM
    Prometheus/1979/Starkiller
    maybe i should of wrote 'how?' instead of 'why?'. because thats what im concerned about
    sorry i dont understand how/why an extra ~2HP is yielded from fresh ap washing. other than it does happen according to you/others
    is it wrong that i want to the formulas with my own eyes?
    guess people are fine with just knowing the outcome, and dont care about the actual mechanism. for ex. arent people curious as to how doctors save lives, the actual science behind it all?; and with the actual formula it would be 100% instead of 99%
     
  2. Chew
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    Chew Headless Horseman

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    The formulas were extracted from the game before by staff and posted here, so you can find the exact formula here on the forum. I'm not gonna help you look for it though cause I'm crazy busy today.
    Good luck.

    EDIT: God damn, I'm going to have to eat my words.
    There has only been extracted code from lvl up and job advancement, we are missing the ap reset code.

    NaviNavi are you the man for the job? ;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2017
  3. Glissando
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    Glissando Pink Teddy

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    5:21 PM
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    1) can you hp wash at low levels like level 20? and im guessing you would be handicapped, because you dont gain alot of hp in first job? please elaborate

    Let me try to make sure you understand what hp washing is first. Having more HP doesn't affect your ability to wash at all because HP is the result of the wash. The factor that affects your ability to wash (eg. number of times and how early you can do it) is your MP.

    The HP washing process basically involves adding 1 fresh ap (from level-up) directly into HP on your character window, and using an AP reset to remove the MP, and adding to your desired stat. This phenomenon is possible because the game sees HP and MP under the same AP pool. This is not possible for other stats like STR/DEX/INT/LUK as they belong to individual AP pools. You can't add STR and use an AP reset to remove DEX/INT/LUK and adding to another stat.

    The basic foundation behind the ability to wash and how early you are able to do it lies on the minimum MP formula (which you can find in many HP washing guide), so as long as your current MP (notwithstanding +MP bonuses from equipments and Hyper Body) is higher than the minimum MP calculated from the formula, you are able to remove MP and add to your desired stat (eg. primary stat).

    Using your scenario, at level 20 and below, you can definitely wash, in fact you can start as early as level 10 if you have added some INT/leveled up with some INT equips right from level 1.

    So, in general, any character from any class innately gains MP upon level-up without and INT added / +INT equips on.
    Take for example, a bowman naturally gains 14-16mp per level (2-4 additional mp is gained per level in excess of the minimum MP limit), and at level 10 bowman, you are sitting at minimum MP already so you will not be able to wash at all at level 10 as 1 wash requires -12mp, so in order to wash, you might need to level up to level 15 (5 levels x 2-4 additional mp gained per level = 10-20 additional mp in excess of the minimum MP limit). That is why as you go higher, you are able to wash more times due to this additional MP in excess of minimum MP. In this scenario, your 1st hp wash happens at level 15.

    So if you want to wash earlier, say you want to wash at level 11, but this time you have added 30int along with your required stat of 25dex to advance into a bowman. Now your mp gain per level goes up to 17-19mp (instead of the base 14-16mp), effectively you are gaining 5-7 additional mp per level as each wash requires -12mp. So assuming at level 10, you started off with the minimum MP, you just need to level up 3 times (giving you at least 15-21 additional mp) to have enough additional MP in excess of the minimum MP limit to perform your 1st wash. In this scenario, your 1st hp wash happens at level 13 because you have added 30 int into your stat. This scenario would also be possible if you have worn +int equips right from level 10 and started leveling with these +int equips each level up to level 13.

    2) is there a minimum level that you should start doing it, ive seen people say for ex. level 120 or level 90? does it matter? for ex. if you start at level 120 would you be handicapped in some way because you didnt start at level 90?

    There is no minimum level when you should start doing it, because it is highly dependent on your HP goals at the end of your washing journey. If you have big goals, of course you want to start early and vice versa. You could also start late and achieve the same result but perhaps only achieved at a higher level as compared to someone who started at a lower level.

    Here's an example, if you have started at level 120, and wanted to HP wash the normal way (which is adding fresh AP into your HP, resetting MP out into a desired stat as explained earlier). You effectively only have 80 levels x 5 ap/level = 400 aps of fresh AP you can add into HP. So let's say at level 120, you have 4,000 hp, each AP added to HP gives your 10hp. Each level-up will grant you 20hp per level.
    Your highest possible HP achievable at level 200 is 9,600hp, deriving from 400 fresh aps x 10hp/ap added = 4,000 hp + 4,000 base hp (at level 120) + 80 levels x 20hp gained/level = 1,600hp.

    So if you have started at level 90, say with 3,400 base hp and you want to hit 9,600hp at level 200 too. You will require slightly the same number of fresh APs as per above example.
    So the only difference is that at level 120, you will have a higher base hp than someone who started washing at level 120. 30 levels difference x 5 fresh ap/level = 150aps. Using these 150aps x 10hp gained/ap = 1,500hp washed. At level 120, you will have 5,000hp if you have started at level 90 instead of level 120. So that guy who started at level 120 only has 4,500hp base. But ultimately at level 200, both of you will have 9,600hp.

    If we set our HP goals for level 200, it is simple. But most players set their HP goals to be achieved at level 120/150. So if you have a specific goal at a lower level, it is only logical that you have to start earlier to achieve it as compared to someone who set their goal at level 200 because leveling to 200 also gives you a big chunk of natural hp gained per level-ups as compared to a character leveled up to level 150. 50 levels of difference in natural hp gained from level-up.

    So in short, yes you will be handicapped to some extent. But if your HP goals are not ambitiously high, you will eventually reach the same end result as someone who started earlier. If you want ambitiously high base HP at a certain level, you will have to start early or else it is not achievable because you just do not have enough fresh APs to pump into HP.

    3) the previous question leads to my 3rd question, cant you just hp wash everything at the end, like level 200? please elaborate i.e. would that be possible? if yes/no, explain

    All I'm explaining revolves around the normal way of HP washing to avoid confusing you. To answer your 3rd question, in short, you can hp wash everything at level 200 using a method called double washing while having sufficient additional MP but it is not possible to wash everything at level 200 using the normal way of HP washing (using fresh AP).

    The only downside of double washing, as mentioned by some players who have posted in this thread, is that you will always gain the lowest HP possible when adding AP into HP. For example, if you have added a fresh AP into HP, you will gain 16-20hp, using double washing you will 100% gain 16hp only. So how do you initiate a double washing process, basically leaving 1 AP inside the HP/MP pool, you are able to use an AP reset to remove 1 point of MP and infinitely add into HP instead of your desired stat to the point the minimum MP formula allows you.
    Problem here is, this scenario of washing everything at level 200 is not practical and practised by anyone because you will not start bossing at level 200, but perhaps at a lower level (eg. level 150).
    And in order to wash everything at level 200, you will still require preparations in your earlier levels (eg. planning the amount of INT equips you need, deciding on how much INT you want to keep locked into your stats, and of course if you want to MP wash). You can drop me a PM or discord me at Oats #6546 if you need any further explanation or better examples.

    PS: I typed this wall of text while at work so it may not be exactly what you're looking for, as I'm not trying to organise my thoughts here.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2017
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  4. Chew
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    Chew Headless Horseman

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    Your forgetting something very important and therefore giving bad advice.
    "There is no minimum level when you should start doing it"
    But there is though, especially if you want to get as much HP out of your resets as possible.
    If your a Warrior you shouldn't wash HP until after lvl 15, because washing HP after maxing the skill Improving Max HP Increase will yeld much more HP.
    If your a Brawler you shouldn't wash HP until after lvl 33, because washing HP after maxing the skill Improve MaxHP will yeld much more HP.

    Other that that I'd say your little essay gets a lot of things right.
     
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  5. HombreGuarra
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    HombreGuarra Mano

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    Apr 30, 2017
    11:21 AM
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    Why would you do it that way? You just use 1 extra AP reset for this;
    1st reset take out of stat and into HP
    2nd reset take out of mp into HP - rinse repeat until you have reached your minMP.
     

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