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Is DK really trash ?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Cerceis<3, Jan 23, 2023.

Is DK really useless ? (Late game)

  1. Yes

    26 vote(s)
    43.3%
  2. No

    34 vote(s)
    56.7%
  1. Cerceis<3
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    Cerceis<3 Blue Snail

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    I just started and spent the last 3 days grinding my spearmen and its now level 38, spent cash expanding inventory and stuff and really committed into it. But I just stumble upon this guide

    https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/an-updated-guide-to-dark-knights.23225/

    and literally being told that DK is trash in late game. Now thats really demotivating. I understand I should just play what I want to play, but I don't really want to end up being useless after massive time sink into grinding and being excluded from all the content.
     
  2. LeonardoJF
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    LeonardoJF Zakum

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    Greetings!

    I think all depend of your view point..

    as people say warrior in geral are not in a good spot as pb attacker (still virgin on this content to talk by myself), but in counterpoint you can join some boss just cause u have hp (no pog gear req, or something else like other job as people need hb)..
    In nt content (dont have sure about auf), ht, toad, drk do a good work!

    On zak arm/cwk/7f (cleave content in geral is S tier)

    compared to hero/pally drk have to deal with the berserk mechanic that can make the use of pot annoy you a bit at begin.
     
  3. Krythan
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    Krythan Wolfspider

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    Every class has it's pros & cons. If you like how the class looks and feels, keep going!

    Something that helped me when I started - "your first character is never your last!".

    On the plus side, an upcoming mechanic that's in development to reduce the need for HP washing is going to (In my opinion) create an increased demand for having Hyper Body in many parties.
     
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  4. RegalStar
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    RegalStar Nightshadow

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    "Trash" is kinda relative, and the difference between classes isn't all that huge. You'd still be able to do contents; you just won't be able to sweat it out like the best of the server.

    Also DrKs are currently bad lategame, which is to say that there's nothing stopping the game from being changed in the future. Buccs also went through some really trashy phases before being buffed into the best lategame attacker class that it is currently, so there's nothing that's saying that DrKs won't be buffed in the future as well.

    Still, if you do want to switch class now, 3 days of grind to level 38 is a drop in the ocean compared to how much effort you have to put in to make any class endgame, so you don't need to get too hang up on it. Your spearman can still be used as an HB mule.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. xiaoyaoz
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    xiaoyaoz Balance Team Staff Member Balance Team

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    It depends on how invested you going to be..
    If this is your first character, it will serve as a decent stepping stone while you get to know about the game and eventually find out what you like to do most..
    Dk has a good levelling playthrough and having HB is well appreciated in the early to mid game bossing scene, even well into the casual end game bossing..
    However, if you end up really liking the game and see yourself investing few hours every day, you'll see yourself putting much more effort in order to achieve what others can do easily..
    If this is your first time playing maple, then it is as what you knew, play what you enjoy the most, because that will keep you playing the most..
    Many players tend to aspire too high and just quit far far far before they achieve anything..
    A good advice is always to vote on a separate 2nd character while exploring with your first so that if you really do end up liking the game a lot, you'll be able to be whoever you want to be.. :)
     
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  6. Selquin
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    Selquin Headless Horseman

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    PB will probably be the only content you find yourself exluded from. In the current iteration of the meta, DKs are incredibly bad at PB, and the current high quality runs try to minimize/mule DKs as much as possible.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
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  7. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    DKs will only ever look good on spreadsheets, and they'll only be balanced around spreadsheets. The reality is that they'll underperform compared to all of their counterparts, and will remain the largest victims of the gap between perfect play and realistic play. For every DPM post that'll make DKs look good, there'll be half a dozen unshared screenshots that will show a more mediocre picture, mostly due to requiring thought for input and well constructed parties of players to work out. The variance among that is probably widest among DKs compared to all other classes, and it'll knock them down far more than any balance discussions are willing to admit. Most discussion also fails to include just how buff dependent DKs are compared to other warriors, which also adds to the argument that DKs are wildly varied in their results. If you want SE in CWKPQ, you need to either bring your own or spend 10% of your time walking back in order to maintain a 12% DPS buff(no mount allowed either, hope you have 140% speed). If you want SE in HT, you're likely to spend a long portion of the fight crossing over, as being a strong DK fighting right arm is only advisable with 4 powerful ranged characters in the party, but even that can be dubious with poor Right Head cancel RNG. SI is also a buff that DKs are incapable of working around, at least in the case of Heroes and Paladins they have weapon options to mitigate the need for SI, but DKs are left wanting. They are the #2 highest buff reliant class in the game, only losing out to Night Lords in buff reliance, but even then DKs require multiple so they're probably more similar in buff greed than not.

    They're likely to remain inconsistent in all content, and any balance discussions I've witnessed bring me to the conclusion that it will remain the case even post buff, as nothing I've mentioned has ever been more than a footnote. It's also my opinion from past changes that any balances will be so conservative that they'll appear muted in their efficacy. Classes are only accidentally made overpowered via unfleshed content changes, the actual changes to classes have every detail scrutinized. It's okay to not know what class tierlists would look like with content releases/changes before being pushed through, but it's not okay to push out class buffs without arduous discussions, ensuring that DKs will never be allowed near the top of any list.

    It's nice to consider class viability earlier though. Personally, I don't think that level 38 is even 1% of the way to a proper late game character in terms of hours played, but that's mostly a testament to how incredibly grindy this game is. Similar classes that are in a good spot(attentive, mechanical play) would be Marksmen and Corsairs, but they can be challenging early on without a base level of funding for leech and game knowledge. One can also joke about the number of maxed DKs who rerolled into Corsair, it's the route of choice. :^) For something with about equal levels of commitment(easy to wash, easy to level) Paladin is the viable alternative to DK, just without the mechanics of 4th job. For a mix between slightly mechanical play and low-to-mid requirements to get off of the ground there are Buccaneers. Those 4 classes are the ones I'd recommend making over a DK, depending on the experience one wants to have.
     
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  8. UnknownCode
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    UnknownCode Nightshadow

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    I wouldn't say "bad" but their Hyper Body ability is mainly used for HP/MP boosts for a duration and in this server theres a lot of people that hp wash which is an exploitable (legit, though just a very annoying process) bug which makes DK's a bit 'secluded' like how Selquin mentioned. However with the new challenge system thats going to be implemented it will sort of give DK's more of an identity (kind of, it will be played more in parties) so don't let anyone tell you otherwise, just enjoy the game how you would want to play.
     
  9. UnknownCode
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    UnknownCode Nightshadow

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    Didn't they add that in recently?

    Mounts were able to be in Zak, HT, and Pink Bean weren't they?

    I see nothing wrong with adding that in CWKPQ if its not yet implemented.
     
  10. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    With challenge system coming out, there is no reason to play DK outside of it being a mule for HB. Why play a weaker class when you’ll have instant access to all 12 classes without being gatekept by HP?

    If you don’t care about bossing, then none of these discussions regarding class balance matter.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    Short answer is yes.

    But that doesn't mean opening DK as your first character is bad. Just don't invest too much meso in untradable gears locked to your DK. It will probably become a mule at some point.
     
  12. Selquin
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    Selquin Headless Horseman

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  13. fael
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    fael Nightshadow

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    Well, DKs were recently buffed and as far as I know it was the only job that got a THREAD on forums created by Staff to hear the players' feedback after the changes (Feedback - Dark Knight Skill Changes | MapleLegends Forums - Old School MapleStory), so it proves the Staff is trying to balance things. I really trust the Staff is gonna make something good for DKs.
    Besides that, there are some good aspects on DKs you should consider:
    1. You can level really fast through 3rd job and I would say DKs are currently the best job to grind at 7F, that's gonna let you level really fast and access end game contents. Not all pink bean squads are optimized to use HB mules, and that means you probably can find squads with your DK even on a lower level than a common attacker just because you have HB.
    2. It's also a nice first char to start the game because you can know what kind of content you will enjoy. For example: DKs being bad on BGA, or other 1-button-press bosses like Toad, isn't something actually bad. BGA is a dead content where people just spam 1 button to kill it asap to get exp/coins. I personally would play on a DK because I think Berserk's mechanic is unique and I like to do CWKPQ and HT.
     
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  14. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    With regards to bossing, if you take out HB out of the equation, yes - its essentially a Hero that requires constant zerking (55% HP or lower) for similar damage.
    On the flip side, because you have HB, its easier to get into a party compared to Heroes as light-washed characters requires them to survive.

    However, if you happened to be part of a super-sweaty team, most of such players would have HB mules, which kinda pushes you down to the same desirability as Heroes.

    Tho with that said, as a Hero, I don't have any issue finding casual randoms and friends to boss with
     
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  15. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    DrK is fine. 30man pbs still exists. Not everyone washes to >24k. (Even if u went pally/hero, u probably wont end up in 18~20man pbs unless power of friendship gets u in.)
    On the contrary, u rarely see heroes/pally in pb. (even 30man)
     
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  16. Tarnished
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    Tarnished Mixed Golem

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    Depends on your expectations. In your current phase of gameplay, I would even say DK is OP

    Pros:
    • Really good intro character. DK is one of the fastest classes to train in the whole game, from lv.0 to 200
    • Doesn't require any upfront NX/Meso investment to be OK at everything. You won't be topping damage charts, but you won't be locked out of doing things because your INT is too high, or your class is incompatible, or the elements aren't right, or you can't survive, or nobody wants you, etc.
    • When you go bossing, you are considered an attacker and are paid as such. Nobody will mind even if you're really weak.
    • Everyone loves HB + cleave + crowd control at all level ranges. Even if a squishy character isn't dying in 1 or 2 hits, most people like making money when they're grinding/bossing/training, so HB cutting down on pot costs is a big deal. Only super veterans who have played for years have 30k base HP on their non-warriors.
    • Even if you decide to make another character, your DK will always be a valuable asset (as opposed to a character without party buffs)
    • HB mules will not take your job. Many of the cool activities in ML require or at least greatly prefer an active DK.

    Cons:
    • Probably not worth investing heavily into untradeable gear on your DK because the damage scaling isn't as good as other classes. But in general it's probably not worth it to buy untradeable stuff for any first-character. You don't want to spend your hard earned wealth on stuff you can't reroll until you're absolutely certain you're going to main that char forever.
    • Pot costs are pretty high relative to other melees
    • Single-target DPM is straight up trash
     
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  17. benQ
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    benQ Pac Pinky

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    no..dk is not really trash
    no..dk is not really useless
     
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  18. Ferluci
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    Ferluci Zakum Retired Staff

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    DK is amazing. They are literally a dragon with their zerk horns and dragon attack.
    Who wouldnt want to be a dragon. It's on my to-do list to make one.

    PB is shit anyway who cares about 1 tiny beanie boss.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  19. ryanlights
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    ryanlights Windraider

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    The more things change, the more things stay the same.
     
  20. ryanlights
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    ryanlights Windraider

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