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Keeping things strictly "nostalgic"

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by 13ad, Nov 21, 2020.

  1. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    technically this will not boost the economy - pure dex/luk sins/bm/mm deals lower damage compared to low-dex/low-luk variants. as the weapon they are able to use has way lower weapon attack.
    changing def will make game balancing alot more difficult - its similar to reducing all damages for every mobs, which im sure is not what the staffs wanted.

    people just needs to survive pink bean while leaving the other bosses difficulty unchanged.
     
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  2. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    So from what I understand about mdef/wdef, you have a chance to reduce incoming damage by 1/3rd of your defense. Generally people seem to have around 600 mdef (which is for magic/ranged attacks). If we add +1000 mdef from the suggestion above, you'll be able to block maybe an additional ~300 damage, at a total of ~500 damage with your base mdef.

    It seems like an okay increase, but if you think about how HB doesn't interact with mdef/wdef, it becomes a bit lackluster.

    Reworking the stat and how it interacts is something I've looked into vaguely, one of the major issues I think is that because it's a flat reduction, it might end up being broken at early levels. When you just load on high def equips on your early game character and it takes 1 damage. Other thing is INT might raise your mdef stats and it might end up becoming an OP stat for mages, since their base MDEF stats seem to be in the 1000+ range already.
     
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  3. Soblet
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    Soblet Zakum

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    Yea I think reworking such an aspect that impacts the entire game is very hard to balance and probably not needed.

    Maybe it's better to focus on the few attacks that make you require washing and fix those. Either by lowering their damage or by making them avoidable through positioning (might be very hard/impossible).

    Then in order to retain the bosses difficulty add more randomness to their attack patterns which would lead to more engaged boss fights aswell.

    The monster book and event rings help a great deal already, giving players a chance to obtain some rings that add a decent amount of hp every 3-6 months is great for keeping players engaged aswell.
     
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  4. AioriaX
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    AioriaX Selkie Jr.

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    WARNING: Long post ahead
    Hello TS, I understand your frustration and I agree that the "HP-washing-is-optional" seems like a fairly misleading/false statement given how participation of most of the end-game bosses DO require washing for survival.

    If we were to truly consider "optional" as an interpretation for opting not to participate at all if we opt not to wash, it is pretty unfair, given most of us who reach our end-game stage would have spent a lot of time into the game only to realise we cannot participate if we opted not to wash.

    I also believe when we say nostalgia, for MapleLegends its the experience of grinding to level up, versus levelling to 200 within a few hours, and traversing through quests and different maps/mobs, having the complete RNG scrolling and trying your luck with Gachapon like in the old days. I don't think that HP washing was one of the elements highlighted here for a nostalgic experience.

    However, I refuse to agree that heavy washing is required for participation in all the bosses, and I disagree that you have to make a mage first and not enjoy your character. To get to my points:

    I believe you must have been heavily misled by the current meta of the game, which I agree is unhealthy and unwelcoming to new players. However, you DO NOT need to heavily wash to participate in all the bosses of the game. Again, I cannot agree more that washing is NOT optional, but it is very misleading to say that you have to be heavily washed to participate.

    Screenshot 2020-11-24 at 1.47.42 AM.png

    This is my character at lv 200, only with 10k HP after wearing HP gear + event HP items. Even without event gear, I have well above 9.6k HP, and possibly 10k if I opted to wear a BFC. I started playing in 2017 and I did minimally wash just to survive HT back then, and unlike most of my friends whom have opted to remake their NLs for better quality-of-life, I opted to stick to mine which was never heavily washed.

    Screenshot 2020-11-24 at 1.46.27 AM.png

    This is the total amount of AP resets bought for AioriaX from cash shop, which sums up to less than 1m NX, in contrary to the stories you hear nowadays that requires a minimum of 2m vote NX.

    939,300 NX is 187 days of voting, if you count exclusively 5k NX per day. This is also excluding the double-vote NX which is sometimes rewarded by Kimmy. 187 days is just a little over 6 months, and definitely, far away from 1 year+

    Screenshot 2020-11-24 at 1.48.18 AM.png

    This is my bossing history to prove that I have successfully participated in every end-game boss in ML, including 20 Toad runs and 2 successful Pink Bean runs with my guild. (Proof in my signature)

    I would also like to refute this statement. You also DO NOT have to have a mage first. My NL only had 65 base INT all the way up to lv 17X (washed out to 4 base INT when I first quit at 17X), and I never had a mage, nor bought leech from 0-200. I did have mage friends whom I trained with and levelled up in leeching maps, but you don't need to have a leechstory or an INT-lord.

    The only reason leechstory happens is because of a decision to follow the current meta of having an INT-lord, to unnecessarily wash to 12k-15k base HP, to unnecessarily tank everything.

    However, if you minimally wash, you can train your character right from the get-go like I did, and enjoy all bits of the game from level 0-200 without leeching. It is a give-and-take. No doubt leeching is far superior in EXP-gain, and selling leech is far superior in meso-gain compared to pure grinding, but what's important is what you decide for yourself that is more enjoyable. And for me, I decided to forsake superior mesos/EXP for the fun of playing my assasin, hermit, and nightlord in all aspects.

    You just have to optimize damage in smarter ways earlier game, like staying pure LUK at lower levels due to pumping some INT, opting for more weapon attack, scrolling cheaper DEXless claws with 100%/60% scrolls rather than opting for godly gear at the start. Sacrifice some damage earlier on, focus on good DEX gears to equip a craven/sleve when you're 100+.

    I did make a mage in the end, but only when I was level 180 and only used it to leech a SE-mule. I never sold leech on it, never even trained it much (stuck at 14x) and never even invested in ANY EXPENSIVE INT GEAR.

    Make friends, help them and your friends will help you too.

    To reply to this, I do agree that more HP gear would make non-washing more comfortable, but I can't deny that the admins/staff has made it so much easier for us with addition of Tier10 rings, permanent Pet gears and pet HP scrolls, as well as event HP items. Not forgetting that even MON and Blackfist capes give 300 HP each.

    TL;DR - My points on this:
    - You have been MISLED by the current meta of the game, which is to wash to tank everything without dodging high damage attacks.
    - You DO NOT have to heavily wash your character to enjoy all contents of the game.
    - You DO HAVE TO WASH, but you don't need 12k HP and above. It is NOT NECESSARY. It is NOT A MUST.
    - The only reason that is the CURRENT META is because most people opt to have better quality of life in the game, and by quality of life I mean "I want to tank everything and I do not want to trouble myself dodging high damage attacks even if they are avoidable".
    - You DO NOT have to make a mage first because you DO NOT have to be an INT-lord, or go through leech story.
    - It is POSSIBLE to minimally wash, and still enjoy all contents of the game.


    Additional points:
    HP Milestones of the game:
    8.2k HP base before HB to survive Vergamot (13k+ after HB)
    9.4k HP base before HB to survive a single proc of Pink Bean Damage Reflect (15k+ after HB)
    9.4k HP base before HB to survive Castellan Toad (15k+ after HB)
    9.4k HP base to survive HornTail WITHOUT HB (Attack-Buffed wings deal 9.2-9.3k)

    If we take 9.4k base HP as the minimum to survive everything but just dodge these attacks, an effective 7.1k HP base is enough to conclude your washing.

    Tier 10 = 1k HP
    scrolling 4 x 30% Pet HP = 200 HP per pet (total 600 HP from 3 pets)
    MON = 300 HP
    BFC = 300 HP
    Elin Ring = 100 HP

    These basic items give a total of 2.3k HP, and does not replace your damage for HP.


    Unnecessary tanking:
    12k HP base to survive ALL OF Pink Bean & Nameless Magic Monster's attacks WITHOUT DODGING.
    - Nameless Magic Monster magic claw attack does 18k+, but has a ''warning animation'' that alerts you to possibly dodge its incoming attack.
    - Pink Bean's big bang deals 18k+ as well, but has a two-second charge animation that alerts you to possibly dodge as well.

    13k HP base to survive Vergamot without HB, without dodging attacks (ie. I want to AFK and hold one button)
    - Vergamot's attacks are ALL AVOIDABLE by ducking during incoming attacks.

    15k HP base to survive Castellan toad without HB.
    19k HP base to survive PinkBean without HB.

    Again, only for better quality of life, but not necessary to participate in all contents of the game.
     
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  5. OP
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    13ad
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    13ad Slime

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    This was a really good read, and very informational. Thanks for taking the time to write this up.

    A few days back, I reflected and thought about what made me truly enjoy the game. Although I still disagree with some points you made, you made me remember the importance and enjoyment of the journey.
    Still advocating for additional easier hp gains without the means of excessive hp washing, I realized that this "negative" is probably always going to be a problem, or take years to fix.
    Instead of tunnel visioning into this problem, I decided to focus on enjoying the current aspects, rather than stuck in this never ending hp washing loop. Thus, I deleted my main characters that kept me stuck in this mentality, and
    made an str mage. As troll as this sounds, Its actually pretty fun training with random people and seeing their reaction. Yes, ill probably be missing out on the late game content, but im enjoying my str mage, and thats all that matters.

    -Now people might think that this is just a sign of giving up, but im simply just realizing that the headache of hp washing, isnt worth my time. But I still fully support those who want better, viable, and additional hp resources.

    See you in the game~
     
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