Let's talk about washing too

Fully admits to hating the game mechanic and also admits that it makes the game worse and punishes players.

Does absolutely nothing about it for years on end, merely proposing minor band-aid fixes instead of addressing the core issue head on.

Never change.

 

why we cant get a diary hp quest who gives like 12 hp? hp boost in some gears like belts and zhelms, a little increase in all classes HP, just little changes, so we can play low int ranged classes and be happy D=

 

Or...increase the W.Def and M.Def of higher level gear to compensate. This means people who are using Bathrobes and other well-scrolled but low level gear would have to HP wash if they won't want to invest in game-ending gear. Also, it makes players who want to make LUKless mages and DEXless thieves HAVE to do the HP washing route if they wanted to take advantage of the system - leaving regular playing folk a chance to still do end-game bossing.

 

I'd also like to say I agree with increasing the W.Def and M. Def of higher level gear and/or boost the defense stat to the point where people can choose to be tankier and survive easier but do less damage and vice versa. Of course as most professions other than mage actually utilize their end game gears so it may not be the ideal solution, but I do believe proper way to counter balance washing is to give player the choice of voting continuously for NX cash aka time, or giving player to utilize defense stats to sacrifice some damage but not have to deal with washing for their first character. Another thing that came up in my head is that in addition to increasing the value of wef/magic defense stats increase the 30% weapon and magic defense scroll to 100% since no one really uses it and the trade off is quite fair. For more magic and weapon defense you're sacrificing the potential damage increase and the precious upgrade. This will help people in short term for bossing for sacrifice of their damage as a trade off for increased odds of survival.

But of course, I do understand that washing is not only just a game mechanic but its also a way to control economics in Maplelegends as the prices of INT scrolls serve somewhat as a guideline of the status of the economy.

 

So I've read this whole thread and I've been thinking about this.

I think because of current available hp equips hp washing is fine for horntail as per this link: https://forum.maplelegends.com/inde...washing-to-be-optional-on-maplelegends.26370/

The problem is with Pink Bean. And I don't think adding more HP equips is the best solution because it disproportionally benefits mages and it lessers the advantage warriors have, who should have the highest HP of all.

I think that there are 2 problems currently:
1. We don't want ranged characters with high base int being forced to buy leech. It makes the game unbalanced toward everyone starting with a mage and it is a major turn off for new players.
2. We want people to be able to the 11.7k HP for pink bean, but we DONT want all ranged classes running around with 30k HP easily.

So we need some kind of diminishing returns system.

My idea is this:

Make it so all ranged characters get a higher base MP per level, enough for them to wash to 11.7k HP at level 180 without adding int.
but AFTER they hit 11.7k HP the amount of base HP you get from adding points to HP should be greatly reduced.

In this way everyone can start a ranged character without funding / base int / leeching and can play the game normally without having to worry about having enough HP later in the game.
It will still take a lot of NX (and therefore a lot of time) to get to the HP requirement which is fine because we are talking about a level 180 boss.
It is still very very expensive to get to ultra high HP for ranged classes so the people who are very dedicated can try.

It will reduce the price of int equips a bit but this is a short term change we should be fine with because addressing this problem is critical for the long term surviving of MapleLegends, which is in everyone's interest.

Let me know what you think!

 

New players usually find out about washing at around level 40 and quit the game/ remake.
How about, rescale everything and only allow non mage to add int after lvl 50 or lvl 70?

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard of something called Blood Washing. It's when you place fresh AP in to HP, and then use AP resets to remove HP and put it into your primary stat. I'm not sure if that's something that works for all classes or if that's something tied to STR. If I understand it properly, the addition of AP into HP is more than what is removed after you wash it out. Would this be beneficial for new characters who don't have access to INT gear yet?

 

If you want to add INT after lvl 50, by all means. But don't force everyone to do it.

 

Probably you will get 2-4 HP per AP points. For some class u'll even get negative HP (bucc).

And Bloodwashing is when you use AP into HP, but just leave it there forever. Usually used for mules

 

No belts please, its going to increase power too much for a v.62 server.

Belts came out when Nett's Pyramid or Mu Lung Dojo thats way before
• Cygnus Knights (29 Jul 2009)
• Aran (10 Dec 2009)

Bloodwashing is when you're sacrificing damage for Health Points and they stay in there permanently, its not worth it.

 

I will now blast this thread, hoping that it gets closed after my post.

There are only 2 major fixes to HP Washing :

1. Buff W.Def and M.Def Formulas

As it stands right now, surely as per vanilla MS, we are using this formula to calculate Min/Max W.Def and M.Def from attacks (found on ayumilove) :

Weapon Defense
MAX damage = (MAX before defense) * (1 - 0.01*D) - WDEF*.5
MIN damage = (MIN before defense) * (1 - 0.01*D) - WDEF*.6
where D is (monster level - player level) if (monster level) > (player level), and 0 otherwise.

Magic Defense
MAX damage = (MAX before defense) - MDEF*.5 * (1 + 0.01*D)
MIN damage = (MIN before defense) - MDEF*.6 * (1 + 0.01*D)​

What you can see, being the problem is that the boost gained on W.Def and M.Def is legitimately low

The major buff / fix we can do on this schema is to introduce either a constant buff (simple?)
Moving the MAX = 0.5 and MIN 0.6 to something like
MAX = 0.9 and MIN 1.1

Or by introducing a logarithmic increase where we could be looking at something like
MAX = DEF * 0.5
into
MAX = DEF * 0.5 * log(DEF)

What would this mean, you might ask?
You see, linearly increasing DEF would stagnate the DMG_Reduction you get, so for this case, as you can see in the graph
(Red line is standard, as used in MS / ML, Blue line is the linear increase I first proposed and Green line is the logarithmic increase)


Imagine this scenario of you fighting a boss (lets only discuss MAX dmg)

He does 5k DMG
You have 270 WDef
You're above his LVL (so no dmg increase from lower LVL)
Standard MAX DMG = (5000) - 270 * .5 = 4865 DMG
Linear MAX DMG = (5000) - 270 * .9 = 4757 DMG
Logarithmic MAX DMG = (5000) - 270 * .5 * log(270) = 4671 DMG​

Of course, with logarithmic increase the def you accumulate will change a lot over time

Example with 350Wdef
Standard MAX DMG = (5000) - 350 * .5 = 4825 DMG (-40)
Linear MAX DMG = (5000) - 350 * .9 = 4685 DMG (-72)
Logarithmic MAX DMG = (5000) - 350 * .5 * log(270) = 4574 DMG (-97)​

Q.E.D.
A buff to the formulas would increase the likelyhood of people grabbing better end-game gear (for example Reverse/Timeless maybe?) to reduce DMG taken from bossing.
Would introduce a new meso sink for getting equips with higher W.Def / M.Def.
The improvement to the W.Def and M.Def would be fairly "easier" given its about changing formulas (will have to be checked out by our game editors9
​

2. Insert new HP-related Gear or System

The requirement for increasing HP (as discussed in https://forum.maplelegends.com/inde...washing-to-be-optional-on-maplelegends.26370/ by akash) is that, on a final note he discussed that a whooping 5k HP is needed to make Washing completely optional (Normally its 99% of the game, counting out Pink Bean and Toad... yeah learn how to dodge at Verga lmao)

So the major points we can discuss are :

1. What Gears can be introduced to increase HP?
2. Can a new System be introduced?

For the first point we can take a look at the previous events where, possible rings were given out with some major HP/MP Boosting (See Zombie Ring https://maplelegends.com/lib/equip?id=1112920 which you could grab multiple of, during Halloween event)

One interesting suggestion would be of insert a "Questing" ring (as discussed in https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/formal-proposal-questers-ring.29962/ by Sku)

Another possible interesting aspect of getting a new Ring could be the "Advancement" ring where, every 10 LVLs, just like the Mob cards Ring, you will be given a quest to complete, maybe to kill a couple of mobs 999 times + some ores to get a new tier of advancement.

Example being
Tier 5 Advancement Ring

LVL 50 required, Quest :
Kill 999 Stone Golems, 999 Luster Pixie, 999 Croco, 999 Roid, 999 Samiho, 999 Miner Zombie add some more (has to be rewarding to get it)
Get 10 Aquamarine

Reward :
Tier 5 Advancement Ring with Stats as follow :

ALL STAT + 5 (+1 per Tier)
HP +375 (+75 per Tier)
MP +250 (+50 per Tier)
W.Def + 50 (+10 per Tier)
M.Def + 50 (+10 per Tier)​

~

For the second point we can look at the HP Boosting system, given from voting (as discussed in https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/the-hp-buff-item-in-depth.36925/ by Pixel)
Not much can be said here, as Pixel has already discussed quite well in the Thread.​

With this, I leave you all in this thread to think back about your discussions, hoping that, the Thread will get to a closing end nowadays.

I will continue to use this Post whenever a new HP Washing Thread pops up discussing about the fixes has to be made or generally new people playing the game and being salty they want to Min/Max their NLs to 30k HP as first chars with 0 day-streak votes.

 

blood washing is great but you will severely limit your damage. I talk more about it here
https://forum.maplelegends.com/inde...e-hp-mp-blood-double-washing-mechanics.35384/

 

• Give players that didn't wash still a chance to wash anyway (priority)
• 
  Best thing u can do it is, i wanted to open NL but readed later needed to wash so i opend mage.

 

Let's talk about washing ba-by
Let's talk about I-N-T
Let's talk about all the crazy bosses
For which you need massive H-P
Let's talk aboutttt washinggg