1. Hello!

    First of all, welcome to MapleLegends! You are currently viewing the forums as a guest, so you can only view the first post of every topic. We highly recommend registering so you can be part of our community.

    By registering to our forums you can introduce yourself and make your first friends, talk in the shoutbox, contribute, and much more!

    This process only takes a few minutes and you can always decide to lurk even after!

    - MapleLegends Administration-
  2. Experiencing disconnecting after inserting your login info? Make sure you are on the latest MapleLegends version. The current latest version is found by clicking here.
    Dismiss Notice

Accepted & Implemented Lower Alishar's Avoidability.

Discussion in 'Accepted' started by Pixel, Nov 27, 2020.

  1. Pixel
    Offline

    Pixel Mixed Golem

    173
    74
    178
    Jun 17, 2018
    7:06 PM
    DragonMaid
    Outlaw
    90
    So here's the thing, i've experienced, let me make my points

    Alishar currently is level 56 and 26 avoid boss monster.
    The Ludibrium PQ boss monster

    Ludi PQ is and always been a staple on nostalgic Maplestory, it brings us memories, to do PQ with our friends for exp and we even rejected things like CPQ cuz of it's unhealthy nature and obscuring this PQ.

    But as it stands the meta right now, the current playerbase CANNOT consistently kill Alishar.
    And there's many points for this

    Alishar just like any PQ boss, is a high level monster, he's meant to represent a challenge in itself
    Obviously the game is designed so you have stronger players helping you out.
    And the demand in the original server was even higher than we have at the moment

    But the 35-50 range although big is still a very very small fragment of our community.
    During peak hours yes there's a couple people but, in the dead areas there's hardly people for 2 parties but won't be enough if there's not a carry.

    It gets even worse since its even more rare that players in this server ever go normal dex for warriors, or even low dex, or dex thief.

    Like i said, LPQ REQUIRES a high level player who can hit and kill alishar, but after 45 (which is usually the level where players can start to hit it cuz they approach alishar's level) they go to EPQ which is much better and terms of exp , and also the boss is actually killable (i'll explain this later)

    So the current leveling takes all the high levels which are required for LPQ into EPQ. Making it even harder to find people who can help

    The only 45+ who stays are perma beginners who cant do EPQ or people who REALLY want glasses (And for that reason may be unfunded)

    Now, if you're not high level there's another saving grace which the original game intended.
    Dex classes, especifically thieves and Archers

    Obviously archers can hit relatively easy with dex, and even if thieves go dexless which was popular, Luk gives enough accuracy to hit right?
    Well...there's a problem.
    Both t hieves and archers need to wash.

    And unless an archer or thief is not planning to, which is rare (not impossible but still is like a 50% 50% being nice) all ranged classes on this game are washing, at the very least on these.

    That leaves killing ali to warriors and magicians, which i am gonna say , i don't want this to be the norm to leave it to 2 of the 5 classes, but that's how the game goes at the moment.

    Warrior Magicians, and any ranged class that isn't washing (of course all of these past level 40/45 that are not EPQing)

    Now Math time.
    Given Alishar level and avoid.
    A level 35 requires 130 accuracy to hit it 50% of the time
    A level 40 requires 120 accuracy to hit it 50% of the time
    A level 45 requires 110 accuracy to hit it 50% of the time

    Assuming 10 int = 1 avoid on the monster , magicians need 260 int (level 50) to hit it 100%
    but i've seen magician s hit it consistnely around 40 , still magic claw damage stands to fall off at this rate.

    So only magicians around level 40-45 can hit.
    Warriors and Pirates need 120 accuracy to be able to hit at level 40 or 100 at level 45
    Which is almost impossible unless you're funded ,and not washing (cuz someo f them do)
    Dexless sins don't have much luck either (pun intended) they might be a little short , to be able to hit it.

    Now before i move on to my suggestion i want to put 2 other PQs in comparison
    KPQ and EPQ

    King slime is level 40 and has 10 avoid
    I don't have to convince anyone that a level 21 magician can 100% hit king slime and carry.
    A level 25 class requires 45 accuracy to be able to hit it 50% of the time, which with an accuracy pill and 35 accuracy (around 40 dex which is doable with equips or a cheap robe or just unfunded normal warrior)

    Super Charged Poison Golem (EPQ boss stage 3) is level 85 and has 18 avoid

    THIS IS LOWER THAN ALI FOR A HIGHER PQ LEVEL.
    and i know, level 85 rises the accuracy a lot

    A level 45 requires 120 accuracy , to hit it 40% of the time, and this is harder to hit than ali you may say, but there's many differences
    1.- level 45 is the LOWEST level of the pq, where in Ali , it was near the highest.
    Soo there will be more able people than having 3-4 people below level 40 in LPQ
    2.- At level 50, which is the average level, Zakum helmets, deputies and other stuff become available, making it easier to hit and get extra accuracy which at LPQ, people tend to not even bother with.
    3.- The level 85 stage has less HP than Alishar, (obviously outweight b y the other 2 phases but those melt like butter)

    As you can see, there's way more reason to do EPQ than LPQ, as from the get go with the same effort is more doable to kill the boss than LPQ

    Why the lowest level of EPQ requires less effort than LPQ

    I have one proposal

    Make Alishar's avoid from 26 to 18
    Now why make the game easier? It's how things are right?
    But what about the positive effects

    First
    Let's say the average accuracy of a level 35-40 player is around 80-100 with pills and stuff
    with 16 avoid
    a level 35 with 80 accuracy will have 30% to hit
    a level 40 with 80 acc will have 50% chance to hit
    a level 40 with 100 acc will have 85% chance to hit
    This change , will improve LPQ health so much

    People won't stop wanting a strong carry to melt alishar, which it already could now.
    But also a small team of players level 35-40 will have more hope that slow but surely they can kill ali

    Because at the current moment that scenario happens a lot and it feels sad that players lose hope in their own party and have to split just cuz they know no one on their party can reliably kill Alishar.

    An already strong team takes like 2 mins to kill alishar
    a weak team can't at all

    with the change
    An already strong team, will take like 1.5 minutes to kill ali
    and a weak team WILL BE ABLE to kill, if there's no carry in LPQ.

    Friendships will be stronger, people will no longer have to kick someone in favor of someone strong, and is not like that strong person wont be a selling point for another party, but at the very least parties will be more independent now.

    I know this isn't very nostalgic to make things easier.

    But players won't change their ways, washing won't stop, dexless won't stop, EPQ will still exist. so all that's left is low acc players lower than level 45, who struggle to kill Ali most of the time.

    So yeah give me your thoughts.
     
    • Agree Agree x 19
    • Informative Informative x 9
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Lin
    Offline

    Lin Headless Horseman

    762
    858
    386
    Feb 27, 2017
    Male
    Singapore
    8:06 AM
    Linny,BangHero,Carbide
    Paladin
    200
    Bonk
    As a warrior i feel like this wouldn't affect the nostalgic experience as much.

    I was hella useless from level 35 to 50 on my Page, make us warriors useful on the boss!
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  3. Tate
    Offline

    Tate Capt. Latanica

    352
    229
    278
    Apr 16, 2020
    New Zealand
    1:06 PM
    Potayto
    Shadower
    175
    Beaters
    I agree with this change. Not just because you did the math but you pointed out that yes, it's true. the moment people can EPQ is when people in LPQ ask them why they aren't EPQ-ing instead. Had this happen to all my chars.

    Also, it's hard enough finding a ranged character or sindit since they're mandatory to start the pq, let alone having warriors/magicians miss and clutch carry the end fight.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  4. Eighty
    Offline

    Eighty Windraider

    425
    83
    296
    Jun 19, 2018
    Male
    Nepal
    5:51 AM
    Hundred
    Marksman
    128
    Colors
    Perhaps lower Alishar's level to around 45?
     
  5. Ryae
    Offline

    Ryae Wolfspider

    570
    1,098
    356
    Apr 17, 2015
    Female
    USA (West Coast)
    5:06 PM
    Ryae
    Night Lord
    138
    Nimbus
    I support this too. I've been doing a lot of LPQ lately and always see people disheartened (myself included) when they feel they can't really help during the PQ. It can often lead to people feeling a bit wishy-washy and potentially leaving either for another party or all-together (I'm not exempt from this part either SlimeSad). I feel like just a little tweak could make a big difference, please consider! :heartbeat:
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  6. Tate
    Offline

    Tate Capt. Latanica

    352
    229
    278
    Apr 16, 2020
    New Zealand
    1:06 PM
    Potayto
    Shadower
    175
    Beaters
    This is one of those ideas that would be crazy if it wasn’t implemented
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. Huiae
    Offline

    Huiae Headless Horseman

    890
    865
    386
    Aug 1, 2015
    Female
    Seoul, Korea
    9:06 AM
    Verdict
    Bishop
    WeenieHutJrs
    I'm still against changing 'numbers' from v62 but ML has already been changed a lot from it. (ex. cwkpq, HT, PB, and so on)
    And I do agree it'll give nice experience for every classes, if alishars avoid gets nerfed and HP gets buffed compensation for that.
    (so nerf of avoid doesn't make alishar too dumb)

    Ofc, if this happens, changed numbers should be considered under enough debation and deep thought about it.

    Honestly, best solution is, just don't fking ask pty members carry in LPQ with your intlord MapleF3
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. NecksonBad
    Offline

    NecksonBad Slime

    15
    6
    25
    Nov 12, 2020
    San Andreas
    8:06 PM
    CarnivalPQ
    Great points!
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. xadra
    Offline

    xadra Capt. Latanica

    395
    196
    279
    Jun 6, 2017
    Male
    8:06 AM
    Adra
    Paladin
    170
    Divide
    Is there a good reason why neckson decided KPQ and LPQ should just say "fuck you" to warriors and make them unable to hit anything within? Is there something really secretly fun or meaningful balance-wise?

    To GMs: making this change would be really consistent with the message that we like to keep PQs viable and active (like your increasing EXP for OPQ, and constitutionally preventing CPQ from being added). As a warrior I would never want to join KPQ or LPQ ever, it's nothing but boring and frustrating when I can't hit anything in those pqs. Literally a sandbag used to jump on those stupid barrels
     
  10. Lin
    Offline

    Lin Headless Horseman

    762
    858
    386
    Feb 27, 2017
    Male
    Singapore
    8:06 AM
    Linny,BangHero,Carbide
    Paladin
    200
    Bonk
    Nah they're probably just clueless because the game was new back then and then focused on other things like 'how do we get people to toss money at us' and came up with gachapon shit and 2x exp/drop coupons
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Tate
    Offline

    Tate Capt. Latanica

    352
    229
    278
    Apr 16, 2020
    New Zealand
    1:06 PM
    Potayto
    Shadower
    175
    Beaters
    I have no knowledge of Maplestory updates but if you take a look at the changelogs here: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/924697-maplestory/45361320 Ludi PQ was one of the first party quests around, even predating orbis and hensys pq. So it would be easy enough to assume what LinLin said is true to some extent.

    P.S holy f*ck the website to access patch notes : http://patch.mapleglobal.com/Maple/patch/notice/ requires Internet Explorer to run. wew.

    [​IMG]
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  12. xadra
    Offline

    xadra Capt. Latanica

    395
    196
    279
    Jun 6, 2017
    Male
    8:06 AM
    Adra
    Paladin
    170
    Divide
    Yeah I was around before OPQ was released in mapleSEA and am pretty sure they didnt know what they were doing too.

    It was more of a rhetorical question to laugh at how their game design and balancing skills were just that horrid way back in 2005. "Yeah lets design this party quest that everyone will wanna join cause our game is nothing but pure grind, oh but not warriors, fuck them"
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. whatdatoast
    Offline

    whatdatoast Windraider

    469
    122
    301
    Apr 9, 2020
    5:06 PM
    whatdatoast
    Bowman
    But also dexless wasn't a thing when LPQ was released.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  14. RegalStar
    Offline

    RegalStar Nightshadow

    646
    243
    345
    Sep 23, 2019
    Male
    8:06 PM
    DMsRebirth
    Neckson back then expected warriors to have a lot more DEX than people have nowadays. Of course you can't hit anything with 4 DEX when Alishar was designed around you having 80 DEX at that point.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Lin
    Offline

    Lin Headless Horseman

    762
    858
    386
    Feb 27, 2017
    Male
    Singapore
    8:06 AM
    Linny,BangHero,Carbide
    Paladin
    200
    Bonk
    That jogged my memory, my character was a spearman back in the early days, and my base dex was 78, and i still couldn't hit shit! I had to get a Maple Scorpio and subsequently a Karstan in order to hit stuff.
     
  16. Soblet
    Offline

    Soblet Zakum

    1,359
    1,346
    491
    Sep 14, 2015
    1:06 AM
    Soblet
    Bandit
    200
    Pasta
    They also probably didn't account for non mages putting points into int.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  17. KurayamiLove
    Offline

    KurayamiLove Skelegon

    951
    753
    413
    Mar 15, 2015
    Male
    Nautilus
    1:06 AM
    KurayamiLove/Nagrom/Amatista
    Buccaneer
    69
    Halcyon
    Just for the lols here are some bosses that have less avoid than Alishar:
    -Zakum and all its parts
    -Dunas
    -Papulatus
    -Pianus
    -Lord Pirate
    -Papa Pixie
    -All Scarlion bodies
    -All Targa bodies
    -Ergoth
    -All the 3rd job boss close except the thief one
    -Krexel
    -Captain Latanica

    Alishar may have man titties but he avoids like a ninja
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  18. Soblet
    Offline

    Soblet Zakum

    1,359
    1,346
    491
    Sep 14, 2015
    1:06 AM
    Soblet
    Bandit
    200
    Pasta
  19. Tate
    Offline

    Tate Capt. Latanica

    352
    229
    278
    Apr 16, 2020
    New Zealand
    1:06 PM
    Potayto
    Shadower
    175
    Beaters
  20. Feeed
    Offline

    Feeed Mr. Anchor

    274
    171
    256
    Aug 4, 2020
    Male
    8:06 PM
    Feeed
    Corsair
    +1, reasonably change and makes LPQ more viable. Really good work done on the analysis :)
     

Share This Page