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Lower Level of EPQ Boss

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Gurk, Feb 24, 2024.

  1. Gurk

    Gurk Nightshadow

    Mar 9, 2020
    5:20 PM
    Hero, Bishop, Marksman, Shadower, Buccaneer, Corsair
    I'm here to talk about something that's on everyone's mind. That's right, it's the problematic design of the poison golem EPQ boss! As most of you are aware, the level range for EPQ is 45 to 55. However, the last body of the boss is level 85 (wtf)!


    This is particularly problematic for warriors and brawlers as it means the accuracy required for them to hit the boss is astronomically high such that they are largely useless for most of the fight.


    Yeah, you read that right! Even a level 50 character with an above average accuracy of 100 only has a ~27.8% hit rate, which largely relegates non-bandit melee to dumpster tier for the boss. I am thus proposing that the level of the boss be lowered to something more reasonable like 70, for which the aforementioned character above would have a ~70% hit rate for.

    A little over 3 years ago, a similar change was done for Alishar, the boss of LPQ, so I believe this to be a long overdue change.


    Warriors in EPQ be like:

    • Agree x 18
    • Like x 2
    • Great Work x 2
    • Disagree x 1
    • Friendly x 1
  2. Asanagi

    Asanagi Pink Teddy

    Sep 16, 2022
    12:20 PM
    Poison spam is bullshit as well, nerf that and buff the drops.

  3. Subterlabor

    Subterlabor Nightshadow

    Mar 13, 2023
    6:20 PM
    Gurk please suggest not making char look stupid at same time, if so I support tysm
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  4. iPippy

    iPippy Nightshadow

    May 19, 2019
    8:20 PM
    The issue here is not with the needed accuracy of monsters or PQ bosses, or even that warrior accuracy is generally too low. Rather, I think it highlights various factors about the choices players make to build their gear, and the opportunities/opportunity costs provided at various levels.

    There was an attempt at developing systems which punish players for stacking too maximizing their range (read: attack and main stat), such as defense/hp/avoid and accuracy. We all know those systems generally scale to utter meaningless at the higher levels and with washing, but at the lower levels they can be quite impactful on operating costs and general ability to survive/do damage. Players should be encouraged and given the tools to gear for what they need, and, using OP's example that is accuracy on a warrior. But those tools are either severely lacking at the level ranges it would be beneficial for, and/or are stripped away due to the burdens placed in the context of a challenge run. So, rather than attempt to dumb down the gear diversity of lower levels to match that of higher levels, let's take a look at what's missing from the player's build options.

    First, lets spawn in a warrior. We'll use 30 base dex @ level 50, and attempt to restrict our access to the drastically overpowered zhelm, as well as the deputy star simply because I said so. We'll allow general market access for the rest of gears, but be fairly stingy about how much we wish to spend. When able, we'll scroll using generally easy to access 60% scrolls and even pass a couple of them.

    Hat: Clean wisconsin (7 acc avg)
    Overall: level 35 warrior overall scrolled for dex (14 dex)
    Shoes: Choose between a 2 stat level 40 shoe with 3/5 avoid 60s or snowshoe with 5/7 shoe avoid 60s (5 acc w/ the snowshoe)
    Cape: 6-8 dex on a cape. Any cape. (8 dex)
    *Face: Sad mask. Clean, min stats or one which somebody failed scrolling it (9 acc)
    *Eye: Racc mask that didnt turn out so well, ~3/7 60s. (8 acc)
    *Ring/Pend/Ear: Empty, but I dont believe Tier 1 ring should have been that hard to get by this point.
    *Gloves: Muh attack slots
    *Mastery: 20 acc

    By this point though, the warrior still only has ~90 acc with sniper pill, and 100 w/ bless. So how do players get around this? Even that zhelm would still only be around a 20 acc boost, not enough to hit big rock man. And maple weapons require legends to put out an event. Where are the weapons which come with accuracy baked into them?

    Enter, the weapon for accuracy 60% scroll. These wicked parchments provide a boost of 3 accuracy, 2 dex, 1 attack each. The 60% for attack gives 2 attack, 1 str. If the player was already using 60%s on their weapons (which a new-ish player probably is for most if not all of their slots), then for the low, low opportunity cost of 1 attack, you can gain 1 stat and 3 accuracy. That's an even better deal than converting Muh attack glove to dex. Let's pass 5 of those on our warrior and watch as our accuracy skyrockets to 122 on sniper (132 on bless). That's as much as a boost as that zhelm provided, and a 69% hit rate on our level 50 warrior. Nice. Of course, we can always squeeze out that last bit of accuracy by raising the quality of our goods, getting a minor ring/earring/glove, raising base dex, or embracing the zhelm (which most level 50s really should do anyways; its that good). And a challenge character without access to the free market probably can't easily attain the two masks, but the original 30 base dex was kept optimistic for a reason.

    Now that I've sold you yet on the absolute utility 60% accuracy scrolls can provide, we can direct our attention to the REAL issue here. How do we generate these super amazing scrolls? Well here's what drops them, by weapon:

    • 1h sword: Yeti and Pepe (78)
    • 2h sword: Blue King Goblin-deez (70), Qualm Monk (106)
    • 1h axe: Pianus(R/L) (110), Green King Goblin-deez (70)
    • 2h axe: Eye of Time (80)
    • 1h bw: LMAO get rekt
    • 2h bw: Memory Monk Trainee (94), Leviathan (120)
    • Spear: Mossy Mushroom (55), Chief Memory Guardian (101), Dyle (65)
    • Polearm: Memory Guardian (98)
    • Knuckle (for good measure): Eye of Time (80), Timer (59), Dyle (65)
    Ignoring getting lucky from gachapon (because most weapons dont even have any variants of these in there), the earliest a new player can even HOPE to find one of these things themselves is level 55, and that's only for spears, and from one mob at that. Of particular note, the overwhelming majority of players at these levels will simply toss these scrolls which can almost single-handedly solve early game accuracy issues. Why are these not being directly placed in the hands of those who could actually appreciate them?

    Tl;dr Scatter the accuracy scrolls to the wind among many first/second job mobs and pq bosses. New or ironman players crave accuracy scrolls from snails, not white scrolls.
    • Informative Informative x 6
  5. DrChuchu

    DrChuchu Balance Team Staff Member Balance Team

    Sep 21, 2020
    8:20 PM
    Night Lord
    Maybe important to note that we were doing ironman challenge EPQs, severely limiting gear. Akin to a new player with minimal help, you basically wouldn't have even one third of proper accuracy gear.
  6. fartsy

    fartsy Zakum

    Jun 29, 2017
    7:20 PM
    F/P Wizard
    missing as a warrior is a part of the nostalgic experience



    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  7. thechild

    thechild Master Chronos

    Mar 31, 2020
    8:20 PM
    Dark Knight
    Lmao so true.
    I do like the idea of maybe nerfing the position rate and lowering the acc for those who are strong but very little acc. My sexless pally struggled but if it weren’t for ice mages, clerics and ranged members, then I would’ve had a rough time. Generally the boss is fine, sometimes it’s a pain, but I don’t want it to be too ez considering the ow overall seems to be the easiest and fastest for 45-55. Maybe this is why people sort of steer away from it bc they know they are a “worthless” attacker.
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  8. LeonardoJF

    LeonardoJF Zakum

    Jun 16, 2021
    Rio grande do Sul - BR
    9:20 PM
    When I started playing, I made a warrior as my first character, it wasn't as unfunded as the iron man, but it was created from scratch, even with gear similar to what you said (and zh) and 23 base dex it was still bad, part of this I noticed two things: that bw maple lv 43 did not exist in marketing,
    I believe that as maple weapons are event only, there is a weapon accessible every year that has accuracy (similar to that lv 48 polearm that gives 30, but it doesn't need to be that much
    they could help, if you think about it, besides pole arm there are several other weapons that would have no stats which would be of equal value since warrior doesn't have secondary stats but is acc reliant bracer, fan, the lv 65 strless bow is in mind rn)
    This, in addition to greater accessibility of scrolls, would already be great, but most people simply throw away these scrolls, so there would be another point to think about
  9. Endorphinss

    Endorphinss Mixed Golem

    Jul 28, 2021
    3:20 AM
    In one way or another, this is a hero buff.
    • Friendly Friendly x 1

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