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make Enrage to be worth skill

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Magen, Dec 14, 2020.

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  1. Magen
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    Magen Selkie Jr.

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    hello,

    I suggest to make Enrage to be worth having skill for heros.

    the main comparation i can make is like Concentrate skill of BM because basically Enrage and Concentrate are similar designed.

    nowdays : Enrage is not being active (unless its lv20) with rage.
    future suggestion : Enrage will be active in any level with rage (may consider change the attack boost of it)

    Correction edit:
    I was asked to do a correction edit because i may be sound greedy on the weapon attack boost im asking for.
    so what i meant in first place was having Enrage stack with ATT pot at once but get Enrage buff less weapon attack
    so lets say Rage gives +20weapon attack so like Enrage will buff +10 weapon attack (with same cooldown of 8mins)
    but the main point is having attack pot + Enrage stack
    hope its well understood now
    thank you!
    magen.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  2. xiaoyaoz
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    xiaoyaoz Game Developer Staff Member Game Developer Balance Team

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    This idea has been discussed before in this thread:
    https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/enrage-buff.35627/

    Hmm, another idea I can think of is instead of increasing attack boost, enrage can improve mastery?
    Not sure what's the implication but just getting inspired from the recent bucc mastery change in one of the skill.
     
  3. boldaslove
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    boldaslove Dark Stone Golem

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    Hero is one of the few classes to remain totally unchanged over the years. Reducing Enrage to 24 attack and removing cool down seems like it would just get Hero up to speed.
     
    • Creative Creative x 1
  4. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Unfortunately I fear that a cooldown-less enrage would still be useless for like higher end bosses like Pink Bean. Since you would never use enrage in those scenarios. As for increasing mastery (I'm not 100% certain), but it usually ends up being a passive increase. Sort of like what we see with buccaneer's super transform and dark knight's beholder.
     
  5. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Make it a flat %str buff that scales for duration and reduced cooldown.

    Immediate utility in that it doesn't compete with Rage, and it won't necessarily compete with MW20 as the better self-buff as you could technically rely on party members to MW20 you. It'll scale with levels and gear, rewarding end-game Heroes for investing in their characters/gears. It'll also be relevant for end-game bossing as it won't compete with higher value atk pots.
     
  6. Dumpling
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    Dumpling Slime

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    Enrage is supposedly one of the main skills of a Hero, with an interesting questline to unlock it.
    Enrage 20 is locked behind zakum and Enrage 30 is locked behind Horntail.
    It is sad to see that the supposedly main skill just gets brushed away.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. OP
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    Magen
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    Magen Selkie Jr.

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    the thing is and according to other threads with similar requests which everyone agreed is Enrage should be worth having skill which is not the case right now.
    I think everyone agreed that Enrage should be stack with ATT pots and not as a replacement (as a boost - having both in same time).
    for example - heros would be able to apple and use Enrage both in same time just as dark knight do with beholder or bm with concecrete.
    and also its right to be that way because Enrage is hard to get skill because its dropped from HT/zakum and also with prequest.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. iccqqq
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    iccqqq Dark Stone Golem

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    possible change would be to lower enrage watk and make it stackable with rage/atk pots or make it %str or damage.
    :greedy::greedy:
     
  9. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    I've mentioned this in previous posts suggesting enrage buffs, but the way our buff system works is that if there's one buff that gives ATT, and you have another buff that gives more, the one with MORE will always take precedent. That's why you can apple over a cider. It's unfortunately just how any active buff works. That includes consumables, skill buffs, or anything with that top right hand corner icon.

    This isn't just for WA, but also for like accuracy, avoidability, weapon speed (booster < SI)

    DK beholder IS NOT stackable with attack potions. Concentrate DOES NOT stack with attack potions. You might be thinking of Crossbow Expert, which gives a PASSIVE permanent weapon attack increase to the class. But that's not an active skill with an icon, it's a passive skill that is ALWAYS applied.

    Technical limitations which prevent it from being stackable~ (as mentioned in other posts)
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Is it not possible to make +% buffs additive? Echo stacks over +atk buffs because it is a +% atk. If mw was casted and enrage was a +% str buff, wouldn’t it be possible for it to be added to the total %str? Or does it face the same limitations in that only one type of buff may exist, with mw overtaking? Wouldn’t the solution then be to tweak enrage %str buff and make it better than mw so that it takes priority? It wouldn’t be broken because it would only apply to str and would be a self buff?
     
  11. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    I believe with % str buff, it would just be overwritten by MW, unless you were to like make it EVEN STRONGER than MW. Same thing with echo.

    That said take what I say with a huge grain of salt, cus I'm not a dev :p this is how I've come to understand our buff system (and most of it does check out)
     
  12. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    That was my suggestion - if it's not possible to make the % buff additive, then why not just make it a skill that competes with Maple Warrior in the form of a self-buff? Balance can be based around the duration and cooldown. It wouldn't even be a complete replacement for MW as it's only a bonus to STR, takes orb charges, has a cooldown, and is a self-buff? You could even give it a fun factor like a very small chance to crit? Idk.
    It could give the small boost of damage similar to that of what enrage currently is with the ability to scale even greater over levels and with stronger gear, and it wouldn't be irrelevant during end-game bosses like Pink Bean where you're expected to be on apples.
     
  13. SaviorSword
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    SaviorSword Dark Stone Golem

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    Is mastery a "buffable" stat? If so, could we try that since we need to dance around the limitations of the game.
     
  14. Pasta
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    Pasta Game Developer Staff Member Game Developer

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    Echo of Hero stacks because it's a different type of buff: it doesn't affect "weapon attack", rather it affects "echo".

    There is a limited set of buff types allowed by the client; each skill can alter one or more of those, and each type only accepts one value at a time.

    For example, both an Onyx Apple and the skill Rage affect the type WEAPON_ATTACK; this means that one of them will override the other (in our case, Apple will override Rage).
    However, because Echo affects the type ECHO, it will not interfere with an Onyx Apple.
     
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  15. iccqqq
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    iccqqq Dark Stone Golem

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    then how about making Enrage have the same function as Echo, but maybe have it give more % damage increase than Echo with lesser duration.
    have something similar to the Angelic Buster Link Skill in Modern Maple if you guys know what im talking about, pretty much give a high %damage increase over a short duration of time.
    upload_2020-12-16_11-18-24.png
     
  16. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    Unrelated to all replies given here, but one thing next patch we'll likely make is making Enrage no longer being able to be dispelled, together with concentration. It's not the finalized touches for this skill, but it will at least help with something.
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 4
  17. OP
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    Magen
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    Magen Selkie Jr.

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    thats a nice start but i wrote this post after talking to high levels heros (180-200) and I asked them if they ever use this skill.
    they said that it is so useless skill that they havent even done the prequest to unlock it.
    so having it not dispel is a really nice start and appreciated thing but it remains useless skill :(
    as people said here i think Enrage should work as Echo works even if it overrides one another or just figure a way that heros could benefit this skill even if it become a passive skill.
     
  18. RegalStar
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    RegalStar Nightshadow

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    There is one attack buff in the game I know of that stacks with other attack buff: Energy charge. That being said, I'm pretty sure it's a hardcoded piece of mess that isn't worth untangling to make one skill more useful (it's not like Enrage isn't good for anything, which is already more than what can be said for a whole host of other skills in the game).
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  19. joota
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    joota Mr. Anchor Retired Staff

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    Energy charge does not stack with other attack buffs, but I will happily take it if it was made to stack SlimeTongue
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  20. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    My personal take wasn’t that Enrage is a completely useless skill but that it’s just comparatively lackluster and oftentimes made obsolete. In that regard, of course there are going to be some skills across all classes that are used less/never used because they get made irrelevant. However, when your class identity skills gets tossed aside by attack potions being made more readily available, it kinda feels bad.

    My hope is that Enrage could be reworked to have more weight in class specialization as most other classes have received a few QOL tweaks here and there for better utility or competitive relevance. But on the other hand, it feels like the Hero class has been widely used as the standard metric for class balance and thus has not really seen any development.

    As for all of the other ‘useless’ skills, I am 100% for reworking those for niche situations as well. For a game that is pretty cookie cutter dry like Maplestory, it’d be nice to see some variance.
     

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