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Make it fair for those unable to multi account vote (12/2/2019)

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by cakesogood, Nov 26, 2019.

Is Voting for AP Resets fair for people unable to vote for multiple Accounts?

Poll closed Dec 2, 2019.
  1. Yes if gtop does not allow you but allows me it is fair

    9.5%
  2. No it isn't fair for the people who are unable to vote on multiple accounts

    19.0%
  3. New Suggestion 2 seems to be the most fair for old players

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. How do i delete this poll

    47.6%
  5. Do a flip

    9.5%
  6. Gm help me delete pole so i can make a new pole

    4.8%
  7. poll*

    9.5%
Thread Status:
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  1. Xeph
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    Xeph Horny Mushroom

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    In that case, you are looking for something beyond whats NECESSARY, while your previous arguments has been on how long hp washing takes that makes it IMPOSSIBLE to boss, which is QUITE false. It won't come easily, just like how difficult it is to achieve level 200, or a perfect end game item. You don't get that magical 20-30k hp on range characters playing 1-2 months, just like how you don't hit level 200 or get a perfect gear 1-2 months into the game (well, unless u are that someone, won't name who). It is a matter of WANT here rather than NEED.

    Before you disagree by saying that one can leech to level, make meso etc anytime, however he likes.... You can also 'farm hp' by getting those HP items mentioned above, white scroll 21 slots of pet hp 10% (3 pets x7 slots each), and farm ap resets during events (as much as you want).
     
  2. Oradious
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    Oradious Mr. Anchor

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    There it is, he said it.
     
  3. OP
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    cakesogood
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    cakesogood Windraider

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    What are you're thoughts on the main way of getting Ap Resets being voting on the site where some people are unable to vote on multiple characters like others.
     
  4. Selquin
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    Selquin Headless Horseman

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    10:08 AM
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    I think the discussion as become somewhat derailed, but honestly I think out of all the changes that people have suggested your proposal is actually one of the better ones as it actually takes into account some of the criticisms that have been brought up in the replies and doesn't hand out resets/HP for free. I do very much agree with the principle of being able to accelerate washing via hard work, but I think eliminating voting as a means of acquiring resets is too radical. Practically speaking this would be too drastic of a change that would sit unwell with too many players. Rather than revamping the entire system, it would be more pragmatic to introduce additional ways to get resets/hp on top of voting which do require work. I think that monster book rings, cwkpq, and washing friendly events are a step towards the right direction, but I do agree that we do need more mechanisms.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  5. OP
    OP
    cakesogood
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    cakesogood Windraider

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    thank you for you're feedback i have came out with yet another solution to this problem.

    Vote on one ip, get nx on 3 different accounts. 5k on each account. We do this by linking the accounts together on the website. That way we are all able to have equal opportunities in hp washing on multiple accounts instead of it being unfair currently.
     
  6. nolove
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    nolove Slime

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    people talk all day about effort, what if we remove voting nx's ability to buy resets

    and let in game quest/grinding/farming/objectives be the only way to earn untradable resets, how will this sit well with people?

    or is the gun going to be pointed at people who are suggesting this again for being lazy and all? personally i dont think voting for a few months count as any real hard work at all compared to months of grinding

    and afterall what i understood about earning for your resets, will people then agree for players to complete in game objectives to grind/earn for their resets? of course it has to be limited amount, limit to 5 a day?

    or could we do a hybrid of voting(2 untradable resets) + in game objectives of maximum of (3 untradable resets a day)?

    and the chance to get more during event periods?
     
  7. OP
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    cakesogood
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    cakesogood Windraider

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    Yes, I do want it not need it but it does not change the fact that having higher hp gives obvious op advantages, and to put the main way of getting resets on a time limit offline from the game is ridiculous game design. Another server allows making resets tradable to combat this problem.#novote2win


    To all the people saying that ap resets do not come easy. Sorry I did not know to click a button once every day to
    get 2 resets a day(the main way to get resets btw) was so hard for you old players.

    I guess you guys are essentially recommending me to play the game offline by voting every day until next year where I can achieve my goals for the server. Goddammit it's so hard so grindy.

    If you actually read my new suggestions from the feedback I gathered from the community. I suggested some ways to earn ap resets at a slightly better rate 2AP resets a day in-game
     
  8. Xeph
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    Xeph Horny Mushroom

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    As much as I don’t disagree with what you have to say here, and a slight detail from the entire topic, I’ve to say that what you intend to do, if implemented into the server will kill pretty much most of the DK in this server. There is already a server with a somewhat similar feature that you are looking for, and people there are bitching about the 1BS,1BOW,4NL Meta, and the relevance of DKs.

    Another important point to note is that BECAUSE the server is no longer vote2win, voting for AP reset becomes VERY important in ensuring the votes for GTOP, and by implementing features similar to what you intend to do, might caused the lack of exposure of ML on GTOP, and subsequently ya...

    TLDR: What you want isn’t wrong, however, the unintended side effects of accomplishing your goals via the current ideas proposed may be even more detrimental...

    Like many have mentioned earlier, you can do as much farming as you want during events, it’s pretty much 50% of the time of the server every year. With event downtime, use the period to upgrade your gears, level, socialize, quest, boss, hunt cards, explore maps, pq etc. Not trying to slam down on you, but there’s really more than HP washing in maple...
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  9. Blu301
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    Blu301 Pac Pinky

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    Dude it really seems like you're just glossing over various points people have stated. You essentially say you want to be able to grind for more AP Resets, increase your HP in-game by actually playing the game... And those methods just already exist.

    1. Instead of washing via AP Resets, at any time of the year you can grind almost any mobs you want and start farming 300 sets of 5 cards to get the tier 10 monster book ring, which gives 1,000 HP. Washing 1,000 HP on any range character takes a ridiculous amount of time using AP Resets - and you can get that much HP without using a single one, just by upgrading your monster book ring. In the time it takes you to get the tier 10 monster book ring, you can save up a hell of a lot of NX vote cash too. Two birds with one stone here.

    2. You can make a lvl 35-50 LPQ mule character on the same account as the character you want to wash, cap the level by constantly dying, and earn probably an AP Reset every 2 hours or so just by going through LPQ and the bonus stage. There is no limit to how many times you can do this per day as long as you can find a party, and LPQ is the most populated PQ on this server.

    3. You can make a 4th job attacker on the same account as the character you want to wash (something that "doesn't require washing" like a warrior or shadower), run CWKPQ daily, and probably earn enough NX through 2 runs per day to earn about another 1 AP Reset.

    4. During any of the event periods, aka almost half of the entire calendar year, you are able to grind regular mobs whenever you want and either get straight NX token drops from them or farm event etc drops which you can exchange for AP Resets. During event periods if you grind heavily, you can gain many, many AP Resets per day by doing this.

    5. You can get the rest of the best-in-slot HP equips available in-game, like Mark of Naricain pendant (300 HP) and Blackfist Cloak (300 HP) from CWKPQ, and scroll cash shop pet equips for HP. All 3 of these things are actually endgame equips as well that you can use forever. Plus, you can use 3 pets at once and scroll 7 slots on each pet equip. It's a very reachable goal to scroll 3 pet equips for 100 HP each, which adds another 300 HP. These 3 things combined add another 900 HP for you, which again takes a very long time to get via AP Resets.

    Have you considered that maybe you just haven't played the game enough to discover that the washing/HP-gaining system in place is very reasonable? I think if you just keep on playing you'll understand that it's a pretty good system. Yes there are people who spend a year-plus voting on a new account to create a very very high HP range character, but those are mostly the extremely hardcore who want to survive almost every boss without the HB buff. It doesn't take as long as you think it does within the current system to reach the minimum HP you need to survive in like 95% of bossing situations if you use other methods outlined above to increase your HP.

    It's relevant for me to say that I don't really have a stake in making these points. I have only been here about 6 or 7 months, and I made a shadower that didn't require much washing to survive in almost every bossing situation.

    Reading this thread from an outside perspective, it seems like you just want a shortcut method of gaining HP that suits you. The changes you're suggesting, getting several extra AP Resets almost handed to you everyday, mess up the entire system in place and isn't fair to the hundreds of people who have been here and committed to making it work within the current system for a long time. Most importantly, there are so many mechanisms already in place to increase your HP if you're willing to grind as much as you say you are, and it doesn't make sense to overlook these things.

    And as Xeph said just above, there's much more to this game than washing... You need to build up mesos and create/obtain decent gear if you'd like to be a decent-damaging bosser with all of that HP you intend to wash, and that takes a lot of time too. I also don't intend to slam you with this wall of text, I just think if you keep on playing instead of asking for changes that disrupt the balance of this server you'll be less dissatisfied with the system than you are now.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  10. OP
    OP
    cakesogood
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    cakesogood Windraider

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    #novotetowin
    Current ways of getting ap resets are either event-exclusive or cancerous.

    1. The amount of Ap resets gained farming which I suggested is still similar to what the maximum amount is gained by voting. However, it is now obtained by grinding in-game. I also suggested linking multiple accounts when voting on a single IP so it is fair for people who are unable to vote on more than a single account. Since the community disagrees with the farming method.

    2. Lpq does not take 2hrs to get one Ap Reset. 250nx a single round and runs taking 20mins to 30mins. It takes about 4 to 6 hours of Lpqing to get a single Ap Reset. It also takes time to find a party and people occasionally leave during the runs. Not to mention you don't earn Mesos from doing this. From my 100+ runs of Lpq in various servers, Lpq is one of the most frustrating PQS to do. You never get past the Jms code stage without someone complaining or saying finally at the end. Furthermore, some people dc with passes or just die due to an accident. Doing this PQ a few times is fun and nostalgic yeah but hundreds of runs of Lpqing is really unhealthy. Next, you also have to create a mule to do this PQ instead of farming on your main character. If there was a change to make gaining Ap resets not Lpq mule exclusive it would be fine but this is really unviable to farm ap resets for and rarely people do this instead of just voting.

    3. Creating a class you dislike to play a class that you like. Similar to making mages to train your main. Just for 1 ap reset as well 4th job lvl 150

    4. Event exclusive different events have varying numbers of Ap resets. Some are good while others are terrible for ap resets like the current Halloween event. If every event was made to have a similar ap reset/hr farmed(Consistent) I would be fine with it. You also sacrifice good money items when you get ap resets instead from events.

    5. There have been many similar replies to your 5th point.Having more hp then the minimum is always Ideal. You can tank body hits, make more mistakes, survive seduce etc.. Even with these hp equips you still are unable to compete to people who washed in-game and have an easy time bossing. This point gets mentioned a lot by the replies and not being necessary does not equate to not having a major edge over others.

    I played old school private servers since 2015 and played Maplelegends in 2017 for a while. I feel like I do have decent enough experience to have a say that the current way of gaining ap resets is not reasonable.

    The text cited from your post
    "The changes you're suggesting, getting several extra AP Resets almost handed to you every day. "

    If you actually read my new suggestions 1 2 3you would see that there is a possibility of No Extra Ap Resets and similar to how many Ap Resets is gained by voting Currently. Bad systems are meant to change. It isn't ideal if we were never to change due to old players going through the terrible hp washing system before. Not to mention my suggestion is similar to how many Ap Resets they would gain a day by voting.

    And before someone quotes me and say it takes hard work and effort to get Ap resets. I would like to remind you that the current main way of gaining Ap Resets is by not even playing the game. #NOVOTE2WIN
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. OP
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    cakesogood
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    cakesogood Windraider

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    Yes, we can keep Ap resets in the cash shop and gained by voting. However to be fair to those who can't vote on multiple accounts to wash multiple characters. I suggested that we implement an account linking system. Where voting on 1 IP grants you 5k NX on 3 accounts. See New Suggestion 2

    #NOVOTETOWIN #BUFFDKS
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  12. nolove
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    nolove Slime

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    well "veteran players" or players who are inactive and just voting away during their downtime for ap reset, i really question if this is the way moving forward, and how does this coincide with the hardwork that people are talking about, AP resets like gachapon which are gameplay altering giving advantages to you over another player SHOULD NOT be allowed for purchase in cash shops.

    They should however be like gachapon which can be farmed not necessarily by mob drops but rather daily task, daily accomplishments in limited numbers(since most do consider too much ap resets as gamebreaking), i really wonder how this isnt a way moving forward, being offline and simply voting for resets technically vote 2 win and goes against the server's aim.
     
  13. OP
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    cakesogood
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    cakesogood Windraider

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    #NOVOTE2WIN #1ButtontakesEffort
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  14. Bar Shavit
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    Bar Shavit Red Snail

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    In my point of you, your goal is to play the game - not just waiting.
    People like me, have a goal to do everything I can to perfect my time in endgame bosses.
    Yes, it's including hp washing so I'll be able to survive HT (and there are classes that need it even more),
    and do it without hard life.

    Yes, there are methods to get more hp - but washing is still the best way.
    Washing should be hard and long, but right now - People like me needs to wait without playing to do it normally (and I'm talking about small washes).
    The situation that someone get rewards just for waiting for a long period (even a year) is stupid.

    A new method to get some ap resets by playing is amazing solution.
    It shouldn't be too easy (and 2 ap resets per day if you work for them isn't easy).

    Old players should accept it too. It will help them too for new players.
    Just that something was much harder once, doesn't mean it should stay like that.
    HT was harder, but now it's easier (more people, more gear, etc) - so it should be made harder?

    That really small change will help a lot and make more people play - and not wait.
    How will you get the 1-2 ap resets per day? I think the best idea is a daily quest.
    Not too hard, not too easy - but people with that goal will do it daily.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Zooploop
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    Zooploop Master Chronos

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    I'm going to reply to your OP as I'm going to assume that's the most up to date argument you have.

    • AFK Bossing
    Unnecessary
    • Using fewer potions
    Luxury
    • Being able to boss at earlier levels
    When exactly are you talking about? The first boss that you'd want some washing for is Horntail and that's at level 155. Bossing any earlier than the level for EXP is pointless. If you power level here in under 2 months, your issue will be gear to join it, not HP.
    • Being able to zerk earlier
    Mind you that Berserk cap is lower than 55% until you max it. With the ease of washing a warrior compared to other classes a DK won't have an issue getting close to cap with HB by the time they max Berserk.
    • Not needing HB
    Invalidating a vital party buff and class. The game was made with having HB in mind.
    • Playing a class you like at earlier stage
    Once again, when is "earlier"? If you don't have a funded level 155 character who cannot HT due to your HP, what is stopping right now?

    I believe there could be a Quest ring and further tiers of MB ring to give additional HP, just so there's enough where a range character can go completely without washing. Falls in line with working for more HP and requires more than just grinding (which you do by default playing the game). Anymore should come from washing, which is not meant to be quick.

    Your original suggestion was centered around the idea, players will grind to these high end levels in breakneck paces, have the gear necessary to join those parties at the minimum party level (which even most slow level players cannot), and the only thing holding them back will be HP. Now you've said you just want a more comfortable time bossing. You're not the first, not the last, and Kimmy one year ago added vote streak so now you can get two resets a day, vs one and a half.

    If they remove AP resets from the shop, which I'm not entirely against, it should start at one max two a day from playing same as the cap for voting (still get to keep your NX for other uses). Remember this however, if a player finds they want to wash later and AP resets are removed, they cannot use NX they've stored for it. They would have lost every day they could have obtained them, and start from square one, which would be far worse than it is now.

    You yourself believe washing gives a huge advantage, how can you argue that it should be faster for newer characters, when older characters have already finished washing at the current speed and with less lofty goals as they did not want to wait for 20k+ HP? This all stemming from a desire of comfort, once you've reached enough to fight Toad anymore is purely excessive.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. Mott
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    Mott Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    A quest ring would be nice and a great incentive to complete quests. People only do quests if they give a decent reward, but this would be a way to fairly give more HP/MP/Stats. I remember seeing a forum post about it. I hope the staff considers this when they add a new HP ring or something <3
     
  17. OP
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    cakesogood
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    cakesogood Windraider

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    I suggest you Read suggestion 1,2,3 any of them can be chosen before replying.

    1.Fewer pots = more money per run it adds up if you boss every day
    2.LVL 155 requires hp to do ht. That was what I meant by doing bosses at earlier stages. Vergamot and other bosses apply as well.
    3.AFK Bossing, TANKING STUNS, unnecessary does not equate to not op
    4. Not needing HB that's what makes hp washing op
    5. Don't need hp gears what makes hp washing op
    6. Voting being the main way of getting said op item


    Cited from your reply
    1. Remember this, however, if a player finds they want to wash later and AP resets are removed, they cannot use NX they've stored for it. They would have lost every day they could have obtained them. (Read suggestion 2)

    2.You yourself believe washing gives a huge advantage, how can you argue that it should be faster for newer characters, when older characters have already finished washing at the current speed and with less lofty goals as they did not want to wait for 20k+ HP?(Read suggestion 1,2,3) it's almost the same rate with voting streak however obtained IN-GAME

    I found that a common reason for people disagreeing with my suggestion is that hp washing is unnecessary. Yes, it's unnecessary but it gives huge advantages ok.......
     
  18. Zooploop
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    Zooploop Master Chronos

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    1. And saving money on pots is not required to play the game, most players haven't washed to 20k and get along fine with money. If you believe it's worth it, wait.
    2. Balancing things around bossing when you can't get EXP is useless and not a standard to go by. The minimum level to do Neo Tokyo is 100, that doesn't mean you should have the HP to fight it at 100.
    3. Stuns don't stop you from potting.
    4. That's what makes extreme HP washing op, which is what you previously suggested to make faster.
    5. HP gears are what makes washing more optional, if you believe it's hp washing is so good it means you don't even need them, what is your issue with waiting to vote? You care about immediate HP not the long term.

    Suggestion 2 is completely unrelated to my point, if AP resets no longer exist in the cash shop it's not a matter of having NX cash on other accounts. If a person finds out later they want to HP wash to do bosses they otherwise cannot, they only have whatever resets they gained while playing. They can't use stored cash to buy them.

    If what you're arguing for is the same rate but instead, a simple task you do in game to get them (which it has to be simple, if it's not and a new player cannot do them it's objectively worse than the current system), what is the point of implementing this? Yea I agree it would require more effort than voting, it's still going to take a long time and ultimately doesn't serve your purpose of getting to "op" faster. Why is the staff going through the trouble of making this roundabout change?

    Yes people are disagreeing because they see no reason to reduce the time a method that gives an advantage takes. If you feel it's worthwhile to wash that much, you wait. If you don't, you wash enough for your goal and continue playing.

    Can you tell me the idea behind Suggestion 1/3? Lets assume they removed AP resets from cash shop (which opens up to point I said earlier). What ultimately changes for someone concerned with washing now? They're still going at two resets a day. Nothing changes from a speed point of view. Is this whole thread just a stunt for you to complain you can't multi-vote?
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  19. Dvah
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    Dvah Pac Pinky

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    I’m down for the accounts link
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  20. OP
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    cakesogood
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    cakesogood Windraider

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    My suggestion has changed and will continue too to fit both my wants and the player base wants to have a higher chance of getting accepted. Dodging stuns increase DPS

    The purple text is cited from you're reply

    Suggestion 2 is completely unrelated to my point, if AP resets no longer exist in the cash shop it's not a matter of having NX cash on other accounts. If a person finds out later they want to HP wash to do bosses they otherwise cannot, they only have whatever resets they gained while playing. They can't use stored cash to buy them.

    Sorry my bad I did not make it quite clear in my suggestion AP RESETS will still be available in the cash shop for suggestion 2

    If what you're arguing for is the same rate but instead, a simple task you do in-game to get them (which it has to be simple, if it's not and a new player cannot do them it's objectively worse than the current system), what is the point of implementing this? Yea I agree it would require more effort than voting, it's still going to take a long time and ultimately doesn't serve your purpose of getting to "op" faster. Why is the staff going through the trouble of making this roundabout change?

    Same rate to the current voting 70day streak with a slight buff(2AP RESETS A DAY). You Bypass the 70day vote streak with this change. Not too overpowered. Why should staff make this change? because you are able to wash on not just one but on many accounts at the same time. Not everyone is able to vote on multiple accounts because GTOP is very strange.

    Yes, people are disagreeing because they see no reason to reduce the time a method that gives an advantage takes. If you feel it's worthwhile to wash that much, you wait. If you don't, you wash enough for your goal and continue playing.

    My suggestion still requires waiting time and is almost similar with a very minor buff

    Can you tell me the idea behind Suggestion 1/3? Let us assume they removed AP resets from cash shop (which opens up to point I said earlier). What ultimately changes for someone concerned with washing now? They're still going at two resets a day. Nothing changes from a speed point of view. Is this whole thread just a stunt for you to complain you can't multi-vote?

    Two Ap resets a day is still a slight buff compared to before but not extremely Unfair seeing as it takes more work. What changes is that they are able to Wash Multiple characters at once. And Yes


     
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