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Making Dash a Passive Skill

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Siegfried, Mar 28, 2023.

  1. Siegfried
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    Siegfried Master Chronos

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    Yet another Gunslinger QoL feature.

    Already suggested here in a bigger post, but I'd like to add a few points and make it into its own shorter post.

    #2. Please save my fingers from spamming << or >> MapleF4

    It's an ergonomic issue that makes playing sairs sweaty for no reason but a gimmick, especially when Haste exists.

    (Haste: For MP -30, +40 in speed and +20 in jump for 200 sec at max)
    (Dash: +30 speed and +10 in jump at max. I had to measure this. It's not in MapleLegends' library.)

    #3. It's not mentioned in the quote, but, you can actually activate Dash and hold it while climbing ladders to maintain the speed boost (so you climb faster) (thus < or > direction button PLUS ^ direction).

    Furthermore, right after a Recoil Shot in smaller areas (I don't actually use Recoil + Wings macro all the time, depending on the map), you do actually have to spam >> or << immediately after to get to the next platform, escape a hoard of enemies (while waiting for the 1 second recoil shot buffer) or reach the next enemy across the map.

    Suggested Implementation:

    Use the original << or >> to toggle Dash boost indefinitely until << or >> is used again.

    Cherry on top: Dash animation isn't shown when you're standing still, and is still active when you start moving.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
  2. PlaceHolder
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    PlaceHolder Mushmom

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    In other words, are you asking that Dash not be lost when you let go of the arrow keys?
    That would be nice to have.
     
  3. OP
    OP
    Siegfried
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    Siegfried Master Chronos

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    Yes, that's right, technical terms aside. SlimeXD
     
  4. ryanlights
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    ryanlights Windraider

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    Make "Pirate Dash" into "Archer Thrust"
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. OP
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    Siegfried
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    Siegfried Master Chronos

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    It's basically the same skill, except we get a tiny bit of jump out of it. The jump is quite nice because it allows you for better Recoil Shot movement (>> Jump Recoil Shot).

    Although, removing the >> or << inputs altogether is the "easy" approach.

    If we're moving between maps i.e. Town to PQ or whatever, then, removing it altogether can be a good idea, because we'd want to basically always have it on.

    On the other hand, having manual control is best, because: sometimes, you don't want to use it for specific maneuvering, have its animation on, and fits the "class fantasy" of being in control of your "ship".
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2023
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. ryanlights
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    ryanlights Windraider

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    ya thats what i meant, make it passive and not having to tap the arrows, ez
     
  7. brunandes
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    brunandes Windraider

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    I'm not experienced at playing pirates, but won't this just erase one of the unique mechanics of the class by making it exactly same as bowman's thrust? I don't think more homogeneity is a good thing, looking at modern maplestory.
     
  8. ryanlights
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    ryanlights Windraider

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    carpal tunnel is not a good thing either :(
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. OP
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    Siegfried
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    Siegfried Master Chronos

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    I'm with you that we should keep some semblance of the ability by keeping the same trigger to activate (and hence, the animation), but...

    The << and >> arrow keys for movement can't be changed, presenting a clear ergonomic issue. It's not like everyone will try to find a way to rebind the arrow keys for something else just for this class.

    MapleStory is a 2D game, so WASD controls are a no-go either. But let's say we re-binded the controls anyways to something like WASD-- the games which included a "double-tap" Dash like Borderlands for instance, actually removed them altogether for this reason-- in the end, we got the "Toggle" option instead. It was an accessibility issue.

    So, at some point, it definitely needs to be changed.

    Speaking as a dev (general programming), changing it to a passive like Bowman's Thrust is the easiest way to implement it by removing the animation & adding a buff. That way, people's fingers can rest easy (technically wrists, because the fingers elevate the wrist when you keep tapping, and the arrow keys' position tends to be in the bottom right, leaving little room for your wrists to rest on a flat surface, i.e. laptop surface, longer wrist-pads)

    Though, the best solution is to keep the animation and make the skill semi-passive (with the toggle trigger).

    AFAIK, the ML team is able to do this already what with the Shadower buffs to Assasinate. But, given how random issues can pop up, i.e. random memory leaks, unexpected inputs triggering it, etc. That's a longer implementation and maybe the one they'd want to go with because it's the most 'elegant' one, or maybe because the easiest solution ends up being the weirdest one to implement (I can't see their codebase, so who knows?).

    Again though, fingers. I use my Shadower to Haste myself to prevent spamming >> << in the meantime, or those Mysterious Candies from the Anniversary event FWIW. I don't believe there are any NPC-purchaseable jump potions either... (is there?)
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2023
  10. lv1crook
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    lv1crook Capt. Latanica

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    This is one of many examples of how early gunslingers get the same skills as every other ranged class, just worse. If you ask me, the change should be made like this:

    Passive effect:
    +15 move speed and 10 jump

    Active effect:
    +15 move speed and 10 jump

    Just because it is a first job skill, doesn’t mean it deserves to be a needlessly annoying skill to use. Players will be spending the majority of their time in late 2nd/3rd job, where other ranged classes will have already developed a significant advantage over gunslingers.

    Also, recoil shot and wings mobility is heavily dependent on your speed and jump stats. Since dash is cancelled upon using either of these skills, you are effectively forced to find other sources for speed and jump to get the most of your mobility.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Zorele
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    Zorele Slimy

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    I think this change is practically harmless and mainly QoL but not because of this line of reasoning. First of all, for most players who play long term 2nd and 3rd job end up being less than 1% of their total experience and it's not like corsair is overall weak. In fact, they have the strongest damage by far in most of the scenarios in the game! The whole reasoning for the change should definitely be a harmless QoL.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. OP
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    Siegfried
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    Siegfried Master Chronos

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    Dash is maintained if you hold the buttons while jumping prior to a Recoil Shot or Wings.

    If a monster comes to you from the right, you Dash towards the enemy, immediately jump (while holding Dash), and Recoil Shot. That's how it's supposed to be used; repeat ad nauseam.

    It shouldn't be nerfed-- just have the motions be easier to maintain for hours you're grinding with the Skill (let's reduce the Haste muling, shall we...?)
     
  13. lv1crook
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    lv1crook Capt. Latanica

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    It’s not a nerf, in the end you would gain the exact same movespeed total. When I say passive effect I mean passive as in permanently active with or without the skill. Similar to how bucc transform permanently gives 5% mastery.

    Doing > > jump < recoil shot on repeat is carpal tunnel simulator. Making part of the effect passive allows you to more reasonably max out your speed and jump stats while simplifying your inputs. And you still have the option to use dash if you’re low level and can’t cap your speed/jump as easily.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2023
  14. OP
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    Siegfried
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    Siegfried Master Chronos

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    Sorry, I misunderstood! What I see you're suggesting is a hybrid of the toggle and ryanlight's Archer Thrust approach (which makes sense with the Pirates/Gunslinger class anyways, as they're a hybrid between Thieves and Archers).

    That could be quite nice, if the toggle approach were to be implemented. Otherwise, it wouldn't fix the issues.

    I do also have a Buccaneer- this is technically a small QoL buff for them too, if we went with this approach; i-frames are not that important anymore, as Demolition is our main damage dealer.

    Repositioning though, might be a bit tricky, if we accidentally toggle it with >> or <<. Then again, some guides advise against putting points into Dash because of it, so it may be something to think about. Maaaybe the entirely-passive route is better.

    To solve that though, we'd need to throw away the >> << toggle idea away entirely, and just make it an active buff skill like Haste, so you could bind it to any key and use it when you want to. Then, both class issues are fixed at once.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2023
  15. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    If carpal tunnel is an issue, take more breaks and use warm up exercises to make sure you're not risking harm.
    The actions per minute required in Maplestory is already laughable compared to other games.

    I don't have much playing time on my corsair outside of having farmed a Tier 10 ring on it, but I never saw dashing as an ergonomic issue since you should be using wings + recoil shot for most of your map mobility. If you're doing ground travel, get an upgraded mount.
     
  16. Freshmaniac
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    Freshmaniac Mano

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    I actually bind Dash to a key. It's way easier to use than double tap dash. Since there's no cast time, it is basically permanent, you just need to press the key whenever you need the buff. That means when you're maneuvering and jumping around, you basically need to press Dash every time you turn around (whenever you need it; maybe there's some instances where you want lower speed/jump). Also, the way Dash works is that once the Dash buff is activated and a horizontal directional key is pressed, then letting go of that directional key dispels Dash. That means if you jump toward a rope/ladder, let go of any horizontal directional keys, press Dash, and hold up, you will climb the ladder with Dash speed. You can even stop climbing: maybe your arms are tired and you wanna take a break; the Dash buff will stay there since you haven't pressed a horizontal directional key while the buff is active. You can even start climbing down--take the scenic route instead of jumping off the ladder like a normal Mapler--you will start climbing downward at Dash speed, because you haven't yet pressed a horizontal directional key while the buff is active. (You can actually even maintain the key-less buff with double tap; your second tap just needs to be very short. Try it!)

    Now, this *does* make Corsair a little sweatier, yes. And when I said, "Dash is basically permanent you just have to press it," that's definitely exaggeration because of the way MapleStory polls inputs and how sometimes an input eats future inputs, so sometimes Dash does have a "cast time". But I think having to cast Dash is kind of fun. I also thought it extremely worth noting, since I hadn't seen any mention of it yet, that Dash can be activated with a key. Double tap dash is egregious as an input for movement, I agree... I would basically only ever use it if I wanted to just run long horizontal distances...which is moot once you unlock Wings+Recoil. If Dash could only be activated with double tap arrow, I would wholeheartedly agree with this thread. But I don't wholeheartedly agree with this thread! That's how important being able to bind Dash is.
     
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