Making Heros Useful Again

I think left side is actually more efficient for head cleave because you don't fall down if you get knocked back/stance fails. You just have to jump back up to the mid top platform. Right side head cleave you need to climb back up since you always fall left/to the floor. I'm talking about JUST head cleave. For Heroes to be comparable to their single-target counterparts (paladins), they need to be able to hit 2x targets only like 15-20% of the time, which seems doable even for head-only cleave (doesn't trigger arms/mass). Correct me if I'm missing something.

CBF to check right now, but do we even have a hero DPM 45 in that thread?

 

comparing damge on dummy as sair, I laugh hard at that one you can't be serious.

heroes are still stronger than DK/Shad .. if someone need buff is those two

 

I'll go Devils advocate.. heroes aren't useless I'm kind of optimistic on them as a solid option for any boss besides PB where they are actually not very useful imo
In terms of party slot and buffs there's no defined role like drk or shad but hero do have a role as cleave attacker which is useful at cwk and ht.

I just thought I would give the optimistic view point. I don't even think hero is necessarily so bad at PB because of stance and brandish range let's their damage be somewhat consistent even in body phase... they're just definitely not a first option since so many other classes do important things at that boss and hero doesn't get many cleave opportunities.

 

I saw a bunch of job players with high dpm saying that hero is strong? This is a joke.
How afraid of hero being buffed dmg? As an nl player, I think these people are disgusting.

 

If this is single target dummy dpm I guess pretty much every other class can create a buff request thread like this

 

not every other class
its every other cleave class*

 

but BM deals 20% less damage then NL
therefore BM 'requires' a buff

 

We're talking about the single lowest dmg job. Then it seems like someone is using bm to try and create more problems?

Two years ago, wasn't there an nl calculation and thought that in ht, dpm was lower than bm, and a large number of nl asked gm to cause bm to be nerfed? Or am I misunderstanding?

 

They're merely indicating flawed logic in using singletarget dummy dpm to get a good view of class ranking.

 

After Hero is out of the single lowest damage, a new class will be the lowest damage. So we buff the new class
Then a new class will be the lowest damage. And we, again, buff that new class.

Keep this cycle going. And you'll see that at one point, NL will be the lowest damage class, and that class requires a damage buff

 

And will it be really THAT BAD just buffing entire cleave classes?
Not in way that will equal their dpm to ranged, but at least get it close to them
why are you so afraid of buffing cleaves? your solution of cleave content will just not happen any time soon
even if you buff cleaves and then cleave content will be added to the game, that dosent make them op
just slightly more relevent than they are now

 

When most of the current end game content, and also the upcoming content such as NT2 is based around single target,
is the logic really flawed?
the current content that requires cleaves is kinda limited. adding new cleave content will not happen any time soon.

 

Let's start with the fact heroes isn't the lowest damage class.
The problem here is the gap between those classes, even being a single target dummy, perfect ST plus 30 levels and the sair having a normal gun+ 130 base int dealing more damage seems... to much raw damage gap, of course they don't have boat 100% uptime (cmon i already played sair, but without these amounts of insane buffs), but they have too many cool kit variety, who let him grind, ignore w.cancel on ht, jump+hit, low boat speed, not being buff dependent, summons, fma, while heroes just swing.

tbh it is unfair compare any class to corsair right now, they have a really cool kit and damage, dummy dpm isn't everything but these numbers still scary...

Re-rolling is the new meta, just hug multimage and SE/SI NL/Sair, and you are fine (or you try to fight your class and some people with the meta classes will try to show how good your class is at zakum arms), i'm already doing that, i already lost my hopes of funding to be stronger than people who choose the right class, i'll just have fun bossing till save nx to create a good class

 

I won't say its entirely bad. I just don't see the point considering majority of the people here just want to point out what I think is the problem - a social norm to disregard the lowest dpm class no matter how strong the weakest class is, regardless of the reason why its the weakest.

to me, this is no different from asking for AP resets to be reduced to 1000 NX - which in my opinion is a bandaid that only solve the issue at surface level.

Its probably weird for me to say this now, but I don't honestly care about numbers. The whole problem is that majority here likes notice a difference of some sort between classes, and alienate them. You can bring them as close as possible, and majority will keep wanting more as long as we stay as the lowest in meta.

Also its already been known that heroes can participate in 30 man PB as a second-class attacker - objectively proven that we can join the highest level of content. In what way is this lacking?

 

Hero is fun

 

This relevant again?

 

tbh tho jdp was a beast

 

tfw hero is so nicheless here when it is one of the top classes in the current versions