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Making HP Washing Truly Optional - a Solution

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Skuire, Apr 25, 2021.

Do you think implementing this system would be good for the future of MapleLegends?

  1. Yes

    250 vote(s)
    83.3%
  2. No

    20 vote(s)
    6.7%
  3. Maybe

    30 vote(s)
    10.0%
  1. -ovv
    Online

    -ovv Horntail

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    You realize that the other-colored text in which you quoted me includes a direct link to reference in which thoroughly explains why I alluded to that quote? If not, let me be similarly patronizing in your efforts and let you know that this is the case. If your comprehensions is unfortunately beyond that which my language allows you to understand, I get it. You can't.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  2. Esmo
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    Esmo Pac Pinky

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    You probably didn’t understand the point of this thread,take ur time and read again
     
  3. HollyCrap
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    HollyCrap Capt. Latanica

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    That's an amazing point of view, very well put.
    But this thread also acknowledge some of the issues that you're mentioning like not allowing for extra hp beyond the 'bare minimum' , so I cant see why are we arguing that much!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. OP
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    Skuire
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    Skuire Nightshadow

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    What constitutes "entitlement," in your opinion? Is a prospective player entitled when he joins the Discord to ask, "do u have to HP wash in this server?" then leaves when he finds out the answer is "yes?" I've witnessed this exact scenario countless times. The player is discouraged from even beginning because, unless he wished to be locked out of the game's full content, he would be forced to engage with one of the worst and most tiresome gameplay elements of v62 Maple servers.

    The operating principle of this entire thread is that the existence of required HP washing turns otherwise-prospective players away from the game. Most of these players aren't entitled manbabies, but just people who want to enjoy their mushroom game without it being a big headache.

    "Some people" should take matters into their own hands and start voting. My intent here is not to remedy the fact that people love bitching on the forums.

    This is already true, and we have constantly been headed in this direction since ML's inception. Thankfully we have consistent balance patches to round out the game, and thankfully the MapleLegends world isn't going to be dominated by unfunded Lv135 Hermits.

    When did 'long-term commitment to a character' turn into "automatic" and "immediate?" The quest is a long-term method of gaining HP that requires long-term dedication to a single character.

    Low-level, unfunded ranged characters can totally solo Zak and CWK, right? RIP party play. At any rate, it's better than every semi-serious player begrudgingly creating a Bishop.

    HP washing is optional guys! You just need to hit the level cap and then use this item that will boost your crippled HP to the bare minimum required to survive! Great deal, right?

    Nobody would bother. Heck, even getting to Lv120 in this game requires a massive time commitment by gaming standards. If you give people the "option" to barely scrape by bossing content with a character that's effectively missing an arm and a leg for how low their HP is, nobody is gonna take that option. It doesn't make sense to anyone to build up a character all that way when they'd be operating far, far below their actual potential.
     
    • Agree Agree x 9
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. SwordnBoard
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    SwordnBoard Selkie Jr.

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    If this is implemented, the choice to do it would be optional just like washing claims to be(thats good right?)

    I dont see how having extra mp is really an issue, even if you missed out by getting to high levels before this get implemented(it wont but i REALLY hope it does).

    Id also rather it be earnable like this than just a 'everyone now has extra hp for free cus rasins'(given how grindy/sweaty some of the upper % of the pop is you would think they would be all for it lol)
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  6. Soblet
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    Soblet Zakum

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    Actually making washing optional true would be awesome, at the same time there's an impact on game balance when you give more people an easier way of reaching higher hp early.

    On my above average hp bandit I postponed getting meso guard until high level 80s when you would normally get it very early and was able to grind at places that are otherwise not accesible. That's a pretty big game changer imo, maybe a bit too big.

    As long as this feature requires equal or more effort and time as conventional washing and only allows you to gain the bare minimum to complete all content with HB I'm all for it. This way it won't affect game balance too much but does affect people that are turned off by washing in a big way.
     
  7. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    I'd also like to point out that a big reason as to why ML washing culture is so prevalent is because of unlimited vote. There is literally no opportunity cost or downside to having nx for hp washing because of unlimited vote.

    Back in early 2019 and prior, the washing culture was kept back due to practicality - hp washing actually had opportunity costs in the form of gachapon / gaining nx on other characters. Now with unlimited vote, the optimal player washes everything they play.

    I'm all for this suggestion / quest to give players more options, but also keep in mind that it will push ML washing culture further (i.e. the expectation that everyone has done something to have higher than normal HP).

    In a world where everyone has committed time to gain extra HP, a player who isn't willing to hp wash or do this quest to gain extra HP is even more so disabled / handicapped by community standards.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  8. pharaoh
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    pharaoh Master Chronos

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    HP washing is already truly optional for every boss in the game if you include a DK in your party. More HP is just for convenience. I don't think people should be telling new players that they have to wash to experience the full range of ML content, as this is completely false.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  9. -ovv
    Online

    -ovv Horntail

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    The entitlement to access content that other players have worked to unlock as a rule and not a privilege from sacrifice. Giving every character access to all content wasn't intended design, yet it has become normalized to assume such because others have achieved it. When a new player asks if they have to HP wash in this server, the answer comes longwinded but ultimately, the response should be no because blood hp is a thing. So is also doing non-min maxed damage. However, it's so prevalent in this server that most people believe that it is required. If people spend upwards of a year to be able to achieve hp to survive all content by doing non-min maxed damage as an INT mule, should others also be entitled to surviving all content without having sacrificed some time/damage to achieve such goals?

    Why is it that people seem to mix in the argument that end-game content limitation is what makes this server a non-optional washing server, yet in the same vein refuse to get to end-game content levels that are required to even play that content?

    My suggestion of a temporary item purchase allows for the absolute baseline necessity (no blood hp required) of HP by lvl 200. The premise then becomes HP goals are attainable without HP washing and washing is truly optional, but the first hurdle will have to be getting to end-game levels anyways. This would still allow for players to blood wash to achieve the required HP at earlier levels, and once they achieve lvl 200, they are free to wash it back into stats.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  10. Voxtagrams
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    Voxtagrams Headless Horseman

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    None of these were directed towards me but I'd like to reply to some ^_^

    This is why I tend to give players mesos or "Free hpq/bubbling leech" when I have the time.
    (sitting for a longer period, rather than genesis go away for a minute genesis repeat.)

    I agree to this, I vote on more than 3/5 accounts. Some others vote on way more but its just not really needed imo, just vote on accounts that you'll need the NX on and have other accounts for item/skill mules.


    (Weevil should have HP washed.)

    Heart in the cards = Heart in the dodge.
    (Dear LORD that was cringe, but I'm still gonna say it.)
     
  11. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    If others spent a year doing crap dmg as an INT mule, I will be assuming that this player played a fairly optimized, yet common meta.

    He created 2 account and vote on them daily.
    Created a bishop, bought some INT gear, power leech and buying leech for his INT lord to lvl 155 (or watever level) and then wash them all off.

    Maybe a take a year on voting, no idea.

    But using skuire's implementation, this is why an INT-less lord will deserve his HP at high levels.

    Comparing effort by effort

    Unnecessary Grind: Old Creating Of Bishop VS New Annoying Daily Quest
    Time Taken: Old Starts from 1 year ON ACCOUNT CREATION VS New Starts from lvl 90/135, whichever decision Staffs decided if implemented.
    I also would like to point out. INT Lord leechers benefits from 2x Vote Events and Purchasable AP Resets During Events, while Skuire's method locks you to Strictly One Extra Wash Per Day

    Both points, depending on washing strategy, may allow INT lords to be fully washed earlier compared to INTless lords.

    The only point I would disagree on will be total NX Spending on Skuire's Implementation, because it did not take in account the cost of resetting INT from INT lords, and implement an alternative cost required for INTLess Lords
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  12. Voxtagrams
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    Voxtagrams Headless Horseman

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    I started putting INT at level 1 made sure I had Job/Class requirements for my INT-Lord/INT-Master
    My 128 Night Lord has (4 str/25 dex/260 int/380 luk) [regular washed a bit, currently double washing.]

    Clean: 13,393 HP / 3,539 MP
    Equips: 14,913 HP / 4,440 MP
    Hyper Body: 23,860 HP


    My soon to be Bowmaster (INT-Master) is only level 53 as of right now.
    (5 str/25 dex/210 int/4 luk) [regular washing, going to be double washing later on.]

    Night Lords and Bowmaster both have the same AP Reset at +16 HP / -12 MP

    I feel like theres a hate for Night Lords whenever theres an HP washing thread.
     
  13. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    Thanks for the info, although its alittle out of scope because u went above the proposed minimum requirement of ~9k base HP.

    Also you did not include the time taken, and the type of effort used (leeched? or self grind with 200+ int)

    Im refering resetting INT to LUK/DEX, not MP to HP
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    Why do you always feel the need to flex your unfinished nightlords hp / mp especially when it adds absolutely nothing to the conversation?
     
    • Agree x 3
    • Great Work x 2
    • Like x 1
    • Informative x 1
    • Useful x 1
    • Creative x 1
  15. Esmo
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    Esmo Pac Pinky

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    64D27F55-19C0-4151-A948-9E30D0615249.jpeg

    flex?
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. Voxtagrams
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    Voxtagrams Headless Horseman

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    The thread is about hp washing and mentions a suggestion for another workaround for washing, so if I'm stating how much HP/MP that I have it shows that its possible to have more HP before the level 90/135 level range.

    So it does relate to the conversation, take a better look.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 9
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  17. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    I don't even get why a suggestion about adding reasonably moderate levels of HP is being compared to people's int lords. If anything this is a replacement for folks who'd otherwise go with 100 int or so, and don't want to bother with the mechanics of washing. The suggestion succeeds at that but my only criticism is that it paints HP washing in such a feast or famine sort of light, when in reality it is possible to get enough HP for Pink Bean's harshest attack while never leeching your ranged character and without any starter funds. It's possible starting around 120 int, but for the best NX efficiency you'd be looking at around 160 int, all while mostly ignoring washing until you hit 3rd job.

    I'm pretty sure the people who tell new players they need 200-300 int are a bigger problem. They're too busy flexing their e-peen from having read a guide to bother to ask what their goals and intentions with the character are. It's fine if you have big aspirations for a character, there's an enjoyment that comes from long-term planning and hard work, but to confuse that for necessity is simply delusional.
     
    • Agree Agree x 13
    • Like Like x 2
  18. Oradious
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    Oradious Mr. Anchor

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    Yea but it's been almost a year and you're only Level 128. Is it truly a workaround?
     
  19. Kaeli
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    Kaeli Mano

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    Is there any news on this? Very curious to staff's opinion.
     

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