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Maplelegends lack of meso sink and its long term economic effects.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by akashsky, Jan 18, 2019.

  1. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    So the first thing I want to talk about is a Meso Sink.

    A meso sink is some feature of the game that removes meso from the game. Currently we have the following as meso sinks:
    Taxes

    Neo tokyo items

    Mounts

    NPC items for purchase (pots, equips, etc)

    Guild creation

    Taxes are not very good, because people avoid them by getting people to purchase 1m etc instead of just straight up paying the whole amount. Regardless, even when people tax evade, they still pay small amounts of tax that help a little.

    Neo tokyo items costing alot of mesos to craft is really good. Players will often need to craft multiple times before getting a perfect clean item to 10% white scroll so this helps alot with curving inflation.

    Guild expansion and mounts are somewhat okay. They have a huge one time cost, but after that don't remove mesos from the server. Its not something like taxes or npc items where people constantly lose mesos from.

    NPC items are very good at destroying mesos. People constantly buy potions and some items like bathrobes for scrolling.

    Obviously our meso sinks don't sink nearly as much meso as we generate from npcing equips from monsters, and to be honest it never should. But I do think that we don't have enough meso sink in comparison to how much meso we generate.

    Anyways, our lack of meso sink has one main long term effect on the server.

    Inflation

    However, not everything inflates at the same rate, and inflation in turn as other consequences.

    What inflates?
    Generally, most items usually go up in value, but end game items inflate the most. For example, in mid 2017, whitescrolls were ~70m and chaos were ~50m.

    Fast forward to today, and white scrolls are ~125m, and chaos scrolls are 100m (and these are the prices after an event which actually lowered the normal prices of these scrolls).

    The same can be said about most 30% dark scrolls, alot of them have gone up, although probably not as much as white scrolls and chaos scrolls.

    I'm not saying this is strictly good or bad, but it does cause some changes to the server over time.

    What does inflation change?
    Inflation makes it easier to get mesos. If all the items are worth more mesos, when you find an item and sell it, you get more mesos. However, you have to note that not all items inflate equally. End game items tend to inflate MUCH more than other items.

    So, ultimately this means that players who are trying to reach end game need to spend more time than before, and players who are trying to reach mid game need to spend less time than before.

    For example, lets say you are a noob who happened to come across a chaos or white scroll by pure chance. If this was 2017, you just made 50-70m. Sure, you are well off now, but you certainly are not set for your maplelegends life. You still need to buy a ton of mid game items for your character.

    Lets say its 2019 now. Instead of 50-70m, you just made 100-120m. Because the end game items (ws and cs) inflated more than the mid game items, you can now buy MORE mid game items for your character than if it was 2017.

    Effectively, the game gets easier for new players, and harder for existing players as time goes on.

    Existing players need to spend more time farming, bossing, or selling leech in order to get chaos and white scrolls when they inflate more compared to the rest of the items in the economy.

    Since we don't have enough meso sinks, I predict this trend to continue (unless some massive changes are made to how end game items are introduced into the server), where white scrolls, chaos scrolls, and other end game items soar even higher.

    None of this necessarily bad persay, but we could slow down the rate at which it happens by introducing a few more meso sinks.

    Meso Sink Ideas
    Produce an npc that sells useful consumables from the cash shop like smegas, safety charms, teleport rocks. We could price them at 1K nx to 1m mesos. So a smega would cost 800k, etc.

    Make traveling on boats cost mesos

    Introduce a special item that lets you skip boat rides for a day that cost mesos.

    Again, we don't necessarily need anymore meso sinks, but the servers lack of them is leading us to a future where end game items inflate significantly (i.e. potentially 200m+ cs and ws).
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2019
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  2. Annolis
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    Annolis Skelegon

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    It's easy to pin what you're seeing to inflation and, thereby, requesting a meso sink. Inflation is, on it's own, not entirely a bad thing. Runaway inflation is the nightmare we would want to avoid. But it's NOT inflation that's causing the prices of end game items to go up. The low supply of end game items in conjunction with an ever-increasing demand of these items from an ever increasing number of endgame players is causing the prices to spike. The only way to deal with the problem you rightly point out is to increase the supply and/or increase the availability of these items. If you wanted to pair a meso sink to end game items, Kimberly could introduce an NPC that sells WS, CS, CSS, and 30%s at rates in the hundreds of millions of mesos, but this would cause either a meso ceiling (which may be ideal or could be catastrophic) or no one would buy them because they're too expensive.

    I think Kimberly's plan of removing Gachapon Tickets from the Cash Shop and having them become drops (and she might be increasing the chances of getting a WS or CS from Gachapon) is a smarter choice of solving this issue.
     
  3. shot
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    shot Capt. Latanica Retired Staff

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    We are fully aware of community's opinion the current state of economy so we are planning on explaining/addressing this issue more in-depth very soon. Stay tuned ;)
     
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  4. OP
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    akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    You are right that its not only inflation leading to huge prices for cs and ws, but I find it very hard to say that its not one of the major factors.

    Theres a certain amount of mesos on the server, and obviously its not distributed evenly. Veteran players obviously have more mesos than newer players. Veteran players want end game items, so they probably spend their mesos on that.

    Yeah I guess if the number of veteran players dropped all of a sudden it would change things as well, but assuming that doesn't happen, I only see prices continuing to rise. I'm not saying thats good or bad (as it really does benefit newer players).

    I'm just saying that introducing another meso sink would slow down this (inevitable) process. Also, I don't think that increasing the supply of chaos or white scrolls would necessarily change anything. The next thing to inflate would be other end game items that are very to obtain, like high stat clean neo tokyo weapons, or maple warrior 20 skill books.


    At the end of the day, it just comes down to whether we want to deal with very high numbers, or slightly lower numbers.

    I don't speak for the community but I don't think there are any problems in the economy right now.

    Of course this will probably change once the event is over and our source of cs and ws from the event are cut off.

    However, I don't really want to see chaos or white scrolls supply to go up (and the price to go much lower). I think the current pricing is very fair and healthy for the server and I'd like to see it stay that way for as long as possible.

    ~120m is about 6-10 hours of selling leech or farming for an end game scroll. I think thats fair since legends is suppose to be a challenging server with low rates
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
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  5. Rockler
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    Rockler Mixed Golem

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    Whitescrolls used to be 150m when Cozy played ;omegalul: The dip in whitescroll price as u say in 2017 was because we had 1000players online for some reason and whitescrolls dropped like crazy.
    Just make a npc sell whitescrolls and chaos, easy mesosink. Kappa
     
  6. imadde
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    imadde Mixed Golem

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  7. Annolis
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    Annolis Skelegon

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    You never want mesos (or even wealth in real life) distributed evenly. And even if you did, the system would auto-correct itself rather quickly. In the real world, money is created out of thin air using interest. Governments are forced to print new money in order to keep up with interest and thereby creates the inflation we experience. You are correct that in the Maple World, mesos are created and will always give us our form of inflation. And, while I agree with you that you don't want the meso generation to be so great that it causes wild inflation, I don't believe focusing on inflation alone is ever a good strategy. Yes, it does need to be dealt with IF the meso generation rate is too high. But without actually seeing the data (something Kimberly would have access to) to see these rates of meso generation to meso sink, I'm not compelled to say one way or the other which way we should go. The only data we see and can verify is the prices on end game items. Also, as you pointed out about end game items, if we increase the supply of Neo Tokyo weapons and MW20, that would prevent them from inflating, too.
     
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  8. Lionheart
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    Lionheart Horntail

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    Focus on inflation alone? Hardly a finger has been lifted to do anything about it yet.

    The thing is, inflation is a problem. One reason being that as time goes on, the cost of potions becomes more and more neglible. And the main reason being that there is a such thing as a meso cap. You can only hold about 2b on one character. Even though right now the prices of chaos scrolls and whitescrolls themselves is manageable, the fact is that the gears that are created are not. If you happen to create a godly item (not even perfect scrolled perfect weapon), its price is going to exceed that meso cap. And then, if anything, people will have to resort to trading other real items that have a real value, such as chaos or white scrolls.
     
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  9. Prophet
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    Prophet Master Chronos

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    I don't see inflation, I see massive deflation (if you go back far enough). Scroll prices have dropped ~50% overall since early 2017 when I started playing. If you ask me, biggest meso sink is when high lvl players quit, taking bils out of the economy.
     
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  10. OP
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    akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    You are right in the case where they quit with all of their meso on them, but I don't think most people do that. I've seen people who are quitting go on a scrolling spree before leaving and then give away their items.

    But if they do "quit" with their items and meso what about if they return? Or what about the numerous times where they actually give away their items / meso before quitting?

    Also, are the scroll prices you are talking about end game scrolls like 30% weapon scrolls? End game scrolls tend to inflate with the economy much more than mid game scrolls. I've also noticed lots of deflation in mid-game items and scrolls, (70%s and 60s are all 50-100k now, 10 att wgs only 10m).

    Also, AnnolisAnnolis I think increasing the supply of end game items is a dangerous move that needs to be done carefully. If you mess up and make the supply too great, it makes the server too easy and the only way to remedy the server at that point would be a wipe. I'd prefer them to remain challenging to obtain since it extends the life the server.

    You are correct we dont have any actual data in terms of meso generation and meso consumption, but from gameplay experience I think generation is much greater than consumption.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
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  11. thugric
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    thugric Capt. Latanica Retired Staff

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    if people are quitting the server with a lot of mesos, does that also count as meso sink? If so, I think this would affect the maple econ a lil
     
  12. Lionheart
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    That depends. It's a different scenario, for instance, if someone quits and drops all their gears. And/or if someone quits and drops all their mesos. But either way, we also have one less actor in the economy. It's one less person selling items, but also one less person buying items.

    If, however, we assume that the person quitting has billions of mesos saved up on several mules, and they don't give away anything, what this would effectively mean is both less mesos into the economy, and less demand for the endgame items (because seriously, someone with that many mesos would be at the point where they only want end game items).

    So yeah, when high level, very rich players quit, that actually "helps" with our little inflation problem, but it also means less people to do boss runs, and less people to interact with... I would still choose improving server community over reducing inflation, but honestly, there is no need to even make this kind of choice.
     
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  13. thugric
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    thugric Capt. Latanica Retired Staff

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    neo tokyo items can be a huge meso sink since they cost 55mil+ to craft
     
  14. OP
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    akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    Interesting. Im not far along enough content wise to verify this but I will edit the OP and add it as a meso sink. Do all items require 55m or does it vary item from item?
     
  15. jeff22222
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    Have you considered applying to staff
     
  17. ijw0908
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  18. Karn
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