Information May 2025 Balance Changes [Explained]

Rainemard
Hello there,
What's the reasoning for the bucc demolition cooldown?
Essentially, that's the most DPM buccs can do. Bigger cooldown = less damage.

 

Why is this the objective for buccaneer in the first place? Buccs are already a pseudo support/util in a lot of bosses used for pinning. This objective does nothing but change Bucc because staff thinks it’ll be more fun. More buttons, more combos, TL require charging, it’s just getting more and more annoying to play this class.

People gravitate towards MapleLegends because it’s the closest to old school maple and I think you guys are really missing the ball with your target audience here. If we wanted so many custom changes, there are plenty of other options

 

Why are you changing shadower to begin with? The change to Savage Blow was much needed sure, but Shadower was just fine where it was, no one in their right mind would call it overpowered or hell even strong.

And we rely on our avoid to give us a scuffed version of stance to begin with. Not getting knocked back all the time is huge. The trade off with warriors is literally that we get both less HP and worse stance in return for semi reliable dodge (and just for the record, I'm lv 155 and still getting knocked back or off platforms pretty regularly). That's been nerfed into the ground now.

 

Whether dpm or utility is “better” is something I can remain open to (although I highly doubt the dpm part), but I just think playing a melee class with now reduced avoid and no stance for effectively 75% of the time (maybe even more if we’re timing our shifter and smokes more now) is just not going to feel good to play.

Edit: Idk, maybe give me incentive to assaulter into position and use assassinate dash to achieve higher dpm ceiling, encouraging combo oriented gameplay to make me want to be more “active” on my shad. But being forced to be active because I’m constantly being knocked around is not something I think I’m going to enjoy

 

wow, thank you for giving us this calm and collected response that shows us part of your reasoning/testing and isn't condescending to people that are complaining. I also worried about shads because being melee without stance or avoid is really really bad in bosses like ht. I think a lot of us don't know what goes on behind the scenes and how much work you guys put into these changes, and in general its also nice to see what the reasoning is behind some of the changes.

 

Thanks a lot for clarifying. Agreed with you on the progression change. Currently, Auf is the only boss that has solely holy-weak element mobs. Therefore, with the changes today, there is no real incentive to put points into holy charge until lvl 170+ imo. I look forward to more holy-weak mobs/bosses!

 

Why does Shifter have to change from a passive skill to an active skill? It adds skill bloat to the class without any meaningful benefits when it is likely to be used 100% of the time off cooldown in most scenarios.

This is a significant downgrade in QOL and will feel extremely bad to play, I know this coming from other MMOs with experience with similar scenarios and it is always a better idea to consolidate buttons once a class has too many.

I literally am not looking forward to having to press another button and don’t have space on my keyboard for it without removing another essential button.

Even if I get a chance to play it, it is still a question why a passive skill has to become an active skill, it just won’t feel good, I know that already simply from experience.

 

I find myself in a unique position that most people won't be able to relate to but I want to share nonetheless. I started a Nightlord almost exactly 4 years ago with the goal of achieving 30k hp / 30k mp on him. Now, 4 years later, I am almost done with that goal but find myself with a character I don't recognize anymore since I made him, especially not after these most recent changes. I realize that making NECESSARY changes to classes should come before the needs of players washing their characters. However, HP washing your character and having it become something you didn't sign up for when you're done is a real issue and does happen to some players such as myself so it shouldn't be ignored entirely. I just scoured the forums for every balance change since 2020 and I would like to share with you all a list of nerfs he's received before I even got to play him:

• Alchemist duration change 150% to 125% --Anniversary Patch Notes 2020
• Shadow Star bug fix --Anniversary Event 2021
• Shadow Star duration reduced from 180 seconds to 120 seconds --Anniversary Event 2022
• Throwing star recharge costs increase --Anniversary Event 2022 (balanced fury recharge cost changed from 1 meso per start to 70 per star, a 70x fold increase in price! MTKs from 43 per star to 85 per star, almost doubled, ilbi and hwabi recharge cost increased 35x fold!)
• Alchemist - No longer increases duration of potions --September 2023 balance changes (Alchemist - Increased the recovery rate from 150% to 200% Absolutely useless for most end game NLs btw)
• Body Guard A + Body Guard B + The Boss --November 2024 Balance Changes (BGA and BGB now spawn together while The Boss will spawn after BGA and BGB receive a certain amount of damage. This basically transforms this fight from a single target DPS fight to a cleave fight, once again making NLs sub-optimal in an ever-increasing pool of cleave bosses)
• Avoidability Formula Rework + Shadow Shifter Rework --May 2025 Balance Changes (probably one of the most deplorable and biggest changes to the design of the job in 5 years)

If you take a look at these lists of nerfs you might notice they share a common trend: To make Nightlords more expensive to play. I've always justified these nerfs in my head as a consequence of being the premier best single target DPS class in the game. Basically, if you want to hit the hardest you got to pay the hardest. Fine. NLs have always been the most expensive class in more ways that one. Not only are they the most expensive attacker to fund with clean end game claws going for as much as 400-500c for 58/8 and 58/9 lamps respectively but also the most expensive in terms of NX to wash, a result of getting the horrible ranged attacker washing formula. I am no stranger to this, having already washed far past the point others would consider reasonable and grinding for a few 58 att lampions myself. But for what? After these recent changes Nightlords might night even be the premier single target DPS attacker anymore. NLs and Corsairs have always been extremely competitive with each other when it comes to highest DPS single target attacker. Take a look at the graph from the 2020 Anniversary
balance change and note how close the two are.

The 2020 balance patch introduced a 20% dmg buff to corsair's battleship canon which had to get reverted in the Summer 2022 Balance Changes when Corsairs became too strong after the battleship dismount bug was fixed. Since then, there have been no impactful balance changes to the endgame DPS of Corsairs or NLs until now AFAIK. These new changes threaten to interfere with this delicate balance. With the new changes, NLs will receive knockback more often interfering with their attacks in the process and potentially knock them off platforms more often. Let me remind you that NLs have can not even throw stars if too close to their target and not only will this affect NLs in terms of DPS but will make it a much more frustrating experience compared to before. Not to mention the even greater repot costs NLs will have to endure. Will any of the other previous nerfs that make NLs more expensive to play be reverted to make up for this? Of course not, don't be ridiculous. (lmao)

But not only do these recent changes to avoidability and shadow shifter risk upsetting this fragile power dynamic, they don't truly fix the problem of less engaging gameplay and radically change the feel of the character. As previously mentioned by some other members of the community, thieves in Maplestory have always felt elusive and hard to hit to make up for their low max hp. The new changes would almost completely eliminate this feeling for me and many others. The change to shadow shifter becoming an active skill although still mostly a nerf also introduces an unforeseen buff to NLs. (the first in 5 years, crazy I know) NLs can now, on reaction to a Sed cast (for example, HT wagging his arm), use shadow shifter to become immune to any dmg while being sed for 15 seconds. This is kind of similar to Echo of Hero which is a lvl 200 skill, and kind of makes that skill feel less prestigious to me than it used to be. You could also argue that giving NLs and Shads a get out of jail free tool every 2 minutes is less engaging for certain end game content. Speaking of less engaging gameplay, warriors still have stance. The only difference between power stance activating and avoiding an attack is one takes dmg while the other doesn't, both stay in place. And this dmg taken is mitigated by how easy it is for warriors to HP wash to 30k hp anyway and because auto hp equips from pets exist. This allows most warriors with power stance (doesn't apply to DKs i guess because they have to manage their HP below a certain threshold) to have a psuedo 90% avoid chance with only having to incur higher potion costs as tribute. If the goal of the BT is more engaging gameplay then arguably, this is even more egregious than the avoidabilty issue NLs and Shads had previously. Why is stance not getting hit down to 50 or 60% proc chance also? So not only are warriors unchanged, but as Akash mentioned, NLs and Shads will still retain 79% of their avoid chance from before which means "less engaging gameplay" will still be alive and well on the server.

Last but not least, I feel sorry for all the Shads caught in the crossfire of this mess. Their 40% shadow shifter avoid taken away and replaced with the same nerfed version that NLs get has got to suck. It's an even bigger nerf to them than it is to us and shads where already struggling. Not to mention smokescreen reduced from 45 seconds to 12 seconds is hilarious to me. It's now shorter than the invul time from the new shadow shifter that NLs get. xDDD Rest in Peace, sweet princes of the shadows. You shall be missed.

​

 

Fuck NLs

 

As much as I agree about the skill bloat for shads specifically, thematically makes sense as a ninja who prepares his substitution jutsu before an incoming danger.

And I know the this is not a fair comparison: “if im going to use magic guard/invincible all the time anyway, why isnt it a passive skill?”

Since Rainemard gave us an official statement on the state of shads, lets trust the process as they’ve already been promised a rework.

 

Thanks for the reply, what I don’t get is that you are already working on something for the dpm loss, so the balance team is aware this will nerf our dpm. Then why release the shifter changes half baked? Why not wait for the other feature to be ready and release it in one go? I mean shifter has been like this for 10 years, I’m sure the rework could wait another few months? Releasing it like this feels like it opened up a can of worms which could have been prevented if the positive changes would go live at the same time. We’ll see how it all plans out. Thanks again for The reply and the hard work.

 

*rises from coffin*

NICE!!!! I like it
*returns to grave*

 

Is this tested on dummy targets or actual bosses?
Also, 30-man PB, 4 buccs. What do the non-pinning buccs do? 2 min demo and 4 minutes Flash fist?

 

I’m curious about the numbers in actual bossing too, since they said they have done extensive testing.

Could we get some numbers provided with dpm tests in 6 man HT, auf, pb with bucc aggro control, etc? Gear used, range and party buffs should be shown to get a full picture.

I would like to see some quantifiable data to show what kind of testing is done instead of some dummy numbers crunched and based off feel.

 

HEy guys for all the quitting Night Lords I think this game is gonna be more your speed: https://orteil.dashnet.org/cookieclicker/?pStoreID=Http

 

As a new player who started a few weeks ago and is currently leveling a bandit, I have to say how disappointing it was for me to read about these avoid/shifter changes.

I appreciate all the work the dev team has done, and I love all the other changes you've made to Shadower (except for the challenge HP, which really needs to be revised until a final challenge that allows you to increase your HP to washed levels is released). But big changes like this, which change the identity of the class and are not meant to improve, but to fix a secondary issue, negatively impact the players who just want to experience what they never could in the og version. Being a thief who take miss all the time looked really fun, and now I can't experience that anymore

 

I guess there a few pointers I hope the Balance Team can seriously consider and address to the community.
1. What is the 'perfect' state of balance you guys are pursuing? Each member that comes into the BT might have a different perception of 'balanced'. Can we ever achieve a state where it's 'balanced'?

2. Why do you guys assume players come to this game to optimize gameplay and min-max the entire journey? You mentioned shads should try out tactics regarding the shifter and smoke changes. But only a small group of players are actually bothered about optimization on this mushroom game. Alot of us here are casuals who just want to enjoy old school maple gameplay. By revamping such a crucial part of Shad gameplay, what makes this still an old school server? Don't slap on a blanket nerf for everyone.

3. BT wants to address mule issue in bossing, well that is directly related to multiclienting. Ban multiclienting in MAJOR bosses (HT, PB, NT, wtv u guys decide is major). If you are concerned about players with multiple computers (which becomes even a smaller group of people), make publicly known that multiclienting in those bosses is BANNABLE. People will be unlikely to take that risk. Most of the community knows each others' mules and secondary chars IGN. There will be reports by people. Stop punishing the whole community just because some people don't play the game the way you want them to.

4. Don't release changes until they are optimized. You say there will be another change for shad likely for next patch. Well then hold your shad changes to next patch. It doesn't make sense to roll something out knowing that there are faults to it.

 

Bishops did not get a buff. Playstyle change is not considered a buff. Unless Auf suddenly received a holy weakness that wasn’t there last patch, then they haven’t fundamentally changed.