1. Hello!

    First of all, welcome to MapleLegends! You are currently viewing the forums as a guest, so you can only view the first post of every topic. We highly recommend registering so you can be part of our community.

    By registering to our forums you can introduce yourself and make your first friends, talk in the shoutbox, contribute, and much more!

    This process only takes a few minutes and you can always decide to lurk even after!

    - MapleLegends Administration-
  2. Experiencing disconnecting after inserting your login info? Make sure you are on the latest MapleLegends version. The current latest version is found by clicking here.
    Dismiss Notice

Modify Neo Tokyo Staves and Wands

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Nicholas, Jul 9, 2020.

  1. Nise
    Offline

    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

    2,059
    693
    500
    Jul 5, 2017
    Male
    Korea
    6:17 PM
    NoraONE
    Corsair
    189
    Sweetdreams
  2. fartsy
    Offline

    fartsy Zakum

    1,306
    745
    471
    Jun 29, 2017
    Male
    4:17 AM
    Fartsy
    F/P Wizard
    Pasta
    11a. A lot of job based equips are obsolete "not true"
    11b. OP knows a lot of 'high level players' who use 'high level equips'
    11c. NL and bowmen get more secondary stats than LUK for mages
    11d. Access to lv80-100 armor and lv100-115 weapons should be viable for LUK mages
    11e. LUKless is expensive
    upload_2020-7-12_20-55-3.png
    12a. There is distinction between LUK, low LUK, and LUKless mages.
    12b. OP's mage will 'probably' will have 4 base LUK after scrolling all gear for LUK
    12c. A LUK mage is possible with 4 base LUK via equips
    upload_2020-7-12_21-17-19.png
    13a. I didn't do math therefore I'm incorrect.
    upload_2020-7-12_21-9-20.png
    14a. OP can "build a mage with 4 base LUK and it still won't be LUKless"
    14b. No incentive for mages to wear any items that require LUK
    14c. The suggestion was needless and for fun. OP instead wants worthwhile endgame content for mages
    14d. OP wants to push another LUK mage buff (avoidability) from his other post
    14e. LUK mages potentially save a lot of money via avoidability buff
    upload_2020-7-12_21-25-2.png
    15a. "This doesn't change anything about what I said"
    15b. 50 LUK overall allows OP to wear a 20 tma glove
    15c. Perfect base stats for OP's glove is as good as a +2 5 slot bwg
    15d. OP's math may rely on chaos scrolls
    15e. 85% damage at 168 proves LUK mages should be buffed.
    upload_2020-7-12_21-31-10.png
     

    Attached Files:

  3. xadra
    Offline

    xadra Capt. Latanica

    395
    196
    279
    Jun 6, 2017
    Male
    5:17 PM
    Adra
    Paladin
    170
    Divide
    Uh I think chillout about this. Everyone just wants the server to be fun for everyone, and I think Nicholas started out with the intention of making the game palatable for newbies who made the mistake of going LUK mage (thanks to Neckson having no idea how to design proper game mechanics).

    I think the ship has already sailed for this issue on Legends, you cant fix LUK mages with massively buffing luk mage equips to an extent that is so far unseen on the server, or nerfing ele wands which will not fly because so many people have spent fortunes scrolling them. I legit would like add a mapletip or early game NPC that tells newbies to not go LUK mage if they want damage, and let's face it, something like 95% maplers are looking to minmax, or will look to minmax somewhere down the line because who wants to play a scuffed character that can't do things others can. If their goal is to FM hoe while pimping "sick nostalgic mage gears" (on an NX free server mind you) then those aren't players we should balance around.
     
  4. Vowels
    Offline

    Vowels Slimy

    245
    192
    235
    Jan 23, 2019
    6:17 AM
    untrue
    Bishop
    200
    Pasta
    Hello Mr.Staff Member, allow me to go off-topic for a second because this is a bit revealing and worrying about balance changes decisions:
    "The best fix would be to ____kill this____. That would force people to ____do this_____"

    And I get that you are entertaining the idea of what could be a fix, but I have to disagree with the core logic. I just think it's better to incentivize changes rather than force them.

    Now about the body of the idea, I'd like to complement your post with some consequences:

    - It would crash an entire market.
    - It disregards the dedication and investments of the bishop playerbase and would make billions of mesos in gears lose a lot of value.
    - It would heavily affect horntail bishops that need to 1-hit wyverns until they get a NT weapon effectively making elemental wands completely obsolete for them. Considering most bishops can only 1-hit dark wyverns at lvl 200 with around 1600 magic, these ones can't level up to get more magic and overcome a nerf but they would need to rely on the NT market and scroll a wand all over again since their elemental wands doesn't accomplish what they used to.
    - It would also affect bishops that grind and their ability to 1 hit, though these ones could just lvl up to get more magic.

    Then you also say that NT wands and staves would require to have comparable stats to elemental wands, which means that in a sense this would be a unnecesary change because the new meta weapon would be essentially the same as the old meta weapon. Then what does this manage to do? It only makes it extremely annoying to dedicated bishop mains that would be forced to do something that's not even needed.

    The LUK folks aren't even demanding these changes, from what I've read they just want the LUK build to be more rewarding without imposing a gigantic meta change.
     
  5. Oradious
    Offline

    Oradious Mr. Anchor

    295
    102
    256
    Aug 28, 2018
    Male
    5:17 PM
    Oradious
    F/P Arch Mage, Gunslinger, Buccaneer
    200
    Pasta
    How can anyone not realise that from the start, this thread was just a buff LUK mage thread masqueraded as a suggestion to change NT weapons?

    OP has been trying to make suggestions for LUK mages for as long as server population has spiked, and most of the suggestions, in hindsight, would benefit those who go down the LUK mage route.

    But, cmon, let's be real, most players would just go down the LUKless route. The small majority who decide to build their mage like OP would probably quit before 4th job. I've even seen people who was so dedicated to LUK mage and even tried to argue that LUK mage was easier than LUKless cause you don't have to do research on the BIS equips, only to quit in 2 weeks. Sure, you can attribute their quitting to the issues you have mentioned/being turned off by low damage.

    The small handful who actually bother to continue playing their LUK mage are now either FM hoeing, or have quit the game because they have had their share of fun. The buffs that OP has suggested/previously suggested would obviously, benefit himself only at this time. Of course, OP would suggest that if the changes were implemented, more people would be inclined to go as far in the game as he did with LUK mages. The thing is, making changes into the unknown would probably do nothing, as the people who MIGHT stand to benefit from this are casuals who would quit in no time (i.e people who shouldn't matter to the server health in the long run).

    After saying all of this, OP would still firmly believe that he is right and we are all wrong as seen from this thread. I'm just baffled that there are a few others who are pushing for seemingly mindless LUK mage changes, when they don't even play the game that much anymore.

    Also, for a post that was made "for fun", the way OP argue seems very intense and tryhard and it is as though he is serious.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Creative Creative x 1
  6. Nise
    Offline

    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

    2,059
    693
    500
    Jul 5, 2017
    Male
    Korea
    6:17 PM
    NoraONE
    Corsair
    189
    Sweetdreams
    Hi Vowels o/ I meant following the assumptions of the OP, that there is no class identity (of a bishop compared to Archmages) and that NT staff/wands are not "useful" and therefore should be changed. If we were to base it off those key principles and problems outlined by the OP, then the SIMPLEST solution would very much be what I listed, opposed to this convoluted way of explaining why LUK mages should be improved upon. However, the simplest solution is of course, not the best solution :p I'd say it's a pretty terrible idea LOL

    The reply I crafted wasn't a serious "this is what we should do" or "THIS IS OUR AGENDA type of thing" :p The reason it hasn't been done, is precisely because of all the reasons you've mentioned. It would cause a huge upset in the community and undermine the hard work of many folks. Though that said, elemental wands not giving punishments to elemental attacks that it is not affectionate towards (aka holy) is a known bug. It wasn't that way in GMS (do correct me if I'm mistaken).

    While there are a number of things that remain on our server, despite it not being that way in the original game, over the years, we have tried our best to correct these coding errors, so that we may get closer to what the game used to be (bar some intentional custom changes of course, usually having to do with skill changes). An example of us correcting things is like how Horntail used to random seduce in 2017, and we fixed it to a timed and percent HP based seduce ^^
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  7. yurain
    Offline

    yurain Windraider

    423
    96
    301
    Dec 30, 2019
    5:17 PM
    YUrain
    I/L Wizard
    55
    Basically this.

    There has been quite a few LUK mage thread around proposing for buff in some form or another. Instead of flipping here and there, regarding mage weapons or other stats. We should take a step back look at the game design for mage here and some baseline facts regarding the class. Instead of just picking and attacking one other's idea, it is not constructive af.

    1. LUK mage is bad and it doesn't see play. I dont think anyone can doubt this. Is it wrong to ask for something that is bad to be buffed to be viable, I dont think so. Be kind to each other.

    2. Elemental wands5/6/7/8, enforced the fact that LUKless mage is far superior than LUK mage. Without those weapons, LUK and LUKless have similiar TMA. Those weapons have been introduced by Neoxn as part of their money grabbing and shit game balance throw the whole roadmap for mage equip out of the window.

    3. LUK mage requires much much more fixes, and very carefuly fixes to make it viable without upsetting LUKless mage. It will be far more than playing with 2 numbers in crit or making strafe shoot 5 arrows. I would say this is almost redesgining the class, which is honestly just too much effort.

    I want to see LUK mage buffed because it is broken. But if we adept the philosophy that if everything is broken, then nothing is broken. I would accept it.

    This is almost like studying an Arts degree despite knowing it will more likely bring you to flipping burgers than STEM.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. fartsy
    Offline

    fartsy Zakum

    1,306
    745
    471
    Jun 29, 2017
    Male
    4:17 AM
    Fartsy
    F/P Wizard
    Pasta
    Quite a few of these "buff LUK mage" threads are made by the same person. LUK mage is a build path, not a class (also refer to 5a). They are best fixed with AP resets. LUKless mages are and have always been a superior build starting 35 and in terms of damage, LUK mages' damage after 163 actually approach that of their LUKless cousins. At this point, it seems to me that people make LUK mages out of ignorance and reluctance to search up guides. The only part of this thread with any merit of buffs is that the magic attack of NT staves is less than 15+level. The difference however is marginal at best.

    Also most people who study arts have a value system different than those who study STEM. Not everything can be measured in terms of money. Let them choose as they please.
     
  9. xadra
    Offline

    xadra Capt. Latanica

    395
    196
    279
    Jun 6, 2017
    Male
    5:17 PM
    Adra
    Paladin
    170
    Divide
    I think this hit the nail on the head but i dont mean for the arts vs stem thing (not the place for me to engage this debate) but for the luk mage topic.

    If you speak to a few luk mage enthusiasts on the ML discord (and there are a surprising number of them), their value system is completely diff from the rest of us sweaty dpm optimizing tryhards. They find wearing mage gear fun cause of nostalgia...and that's why I dont feel like the "buff luk mage" movement will ever get huge suppport, because its alr very difficult as yurainyurain pointed out, and many of its players arent even people who really stand to benefit from a balance change. So overall I'd almost say it's not worth doing anything about. Go focus on buffing buccs instead or something kekw
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  10. -ovv
    Offline

    -ovv Horntail

    2,246
    880
    500
    Feb 23, 2020
    Male
    2:17 AM
    -ovv
    Beginner
    200
    Honor
    Shout out to all the LUK mages that like the way mage equip look and then wear NX over it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1

Share This Page