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New Pink Bean Changes Discussion

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ohviviho, Jan 4, 2022.

  1. ohviviho
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    ohviviho Slime

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    Hi all,

    Just want to hear people's opinions on the new changes to pink bean and the aggro changes.

    The Problem at Hand
    The current aggro changes to pink bean make it almost impossible for (slightly washed) players to be able to run due to the HP requirement.

    Players now require at least 21.6k hp to be able to tank the touch dmg of Munin (right bird) while it seds.

    While I understand that HP washing is optional, the main gist of this game is to explore all content available to players. (I will not entertain ppl who tell me running PB is optional F3)

    I believe that players should be able to run pink bean (and its statues) while being able to dodge attacks that could potentially one-hit them (e.g. big bang, genesis). Sed however is not dodge-able.

    The Solutions
    1. Wash More
    The minimum requirement to run PB before the changes was around 9k, dodging most attacks. Having to wash to 22k now is almost impossible especially for level 200s, or is just going to take a ridiculous amount of time.

    2. Having Shield Up Permanently
    This means having more bishops and bucc/TL mules. But the whole point for these changes was to reduce muling in the first place (?)

    3. Dark Sight
    Thief classes can dark sight upon seeing the animation, but what about other classes?

    4. Changing the Seduce Timer
    Changing the cooldown on the seduce to be the same as Hero's Will allows players to Will every time they get sed. This might however make pink bean less challenging than it was intended.

    5. Changing the Seduce Type
    Removing the jumping from the seduce allows players to walk under the statue without getting its touch dmg. This would be the best solution I can think of as it is similar to that of HT, players will just need to ensure that they have enough hp to tank the magic dmg (7k).

    --

    This is just a post meant for some healthy discussion so that the MapleLegends community could come up with a solution that can make pink bean both challenging as an end game boss as well as one that most players lvl 180+ are able to partake in (and that Staff may potentially consider).

    Want to hear you guys' thoughts ^^
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. Oradious
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    Oradious Mr. Anchor

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    Sample size of runs post bug fix is n=1

    With how statues are slated to work, if the squad is skilled enough this should be a non-issue. This seems like an overreaction no?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. MrPresident
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    MrPresident Capt. Latanica

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    I've only been on 1 run so far but I think there are some things a player can do to avoid being jumped into the statue. Just off of that 1 run I think there are at least 3 solutions to this problem that requires no change in the game just in game play. Players should test for themselves though imo and find out what works for them. Personally I think this is the most fun part of the game where the meta isn't solved yet and players are trying to craft some solutions.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  4. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    The best solution here is to play nightlord, because of darksight. Not only can you do top tier damage but also you have top tier survivability. Alternatively, you need to watch and pay attention to the types of seduce coming out. There is walk left, walk right, jump left, and jump right. You usually won't see these twice in a row. So, if you see a jump left seduce come out, you can position yourself such that a jump right seduce won't have you take statue touch damage.

    There are most likely some other things you could do as well to survive.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. porl
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    porl Mixed Golem

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    There's an ingenious strategy to avoid right bird touch damage, I suspect others will figure it out soon enough
     
  6. Vystical
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    Vystical Orange Mushroom

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    I am not worried about right bird seduce as squads can adjust their strategy to not hit it. Place unwashed characters on the top platform/holy shield/sit on chair/ climb on rope.

    What I am more concerned about is the New Pinkbean Aggro making me unable to take low-washed range characters (Less than 11.7k HP before HB) to Pinkbean. Without buccaneers being able to skillfully manage aggro, those under that HP threshold must run away whenever Pinkbean faces them.

    Compare this to washed attackers who can just attack through the stuff Pinkbean throws at them. Before a low-washed range can still participate (with skill and knowledge) but now the barrier is even higher. I can't imagine the frustration these players have if they are like 1k HP away (after event rings, HP gears, Tier 10, BFC, MoN, Pet HP) and getting turned away because of the new changes.

    Also, this is a good chunk of the community because that 8-9k threshold is where a lot of ranged stopped washing cuz Horntail used to be the hardest boss.

    TLDR: Low-washed range (slightly under 11.5-11.7k~ HP) is screwed with the new aggro patch and we should provide more HP gear to help them survive.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  7. joota
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    joota Mr. Anchor Retired Staff

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    Vengeance cleared PB yesterday with an unwashed person :yay:
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. OP
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    ohviviho
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    ohviviho Slime

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    I guess the purpose of this thread was to discuss the solution to these changes, it may be a game change and/or a gameplay change.


    As you mentioned, you thought of at least 3 solutions and it would be nice to hear what they are so we can discuss it.

    We should not outcast other classes who are equally viable for PB (also what is a NL without SE) XD

    I think this is a really good solution, but also not 100% certain that the same sed would not appear twice in a row. Maybe we can see if this is true as more runs happen :)


    I would like to hear more on this ^^

    I like the idea of the sitting on chair! Placing unwashed chars on the top platform is kinda loss on dpm thou...

    I actually think that this isnt much of a concern as this is still playable/dogeable. Being able to react to mechanics is part of the fun in maplestory (esp. post bigbang). Many unwashed players have been doing this in pink bean runs.

    I heard!! That's why I decided to write this post. I think some runners have found creative ways to adapt to these changes and clear PB and therefore I want to hear and discuss about this topic.

    I know a lot of runners have been told not to share and want to keep it a 'secret', but I do wish more people are able to share their knowledge so that more people in this community are able to enjoy the content that they wish to!
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  9. Vystical
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    Vystical Orange Mushroom

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    I never said it was impossible to be unwashed and Pinkbeam and I will still take my unwashed friends, but as a host, there is little to no incentive of taking an unwashed person over a washed attacker. Especially even more with the loss of DPM when they cannot attack. Plus statues taking longer, Pinkbean attacking back puts an even greater prioritization on Single Target DPS.

    If the intention was to make Pinkbean harder, you got it, but that also means that everything will lean more towards min/maxing. Which means more class exclusion, more gear checks, more washing.

    F for Heroes even more

    Chair doesn't work as well because you cannot be in the combat stance, so it would have to be hanging on the rope like a SED target.
     
  10. MrPresident
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    MrPresident Capt. Latanica

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    As Akash mentioned 1 strategy I tried to utilize was moving sides of the statue. I only took touch damage once doing this and it was the first run so I think it works pretty well so far at least. From that 1 run it seemed like seduces followed a pattern so I didn't get the same jump sed twice in a row. If it actually follows a pattern every run then seduce should already be fairly easy to handle. This in conjunction with the other 2 solutions should make jumping into statues a non-factor for most runs. The other 2 solutions are based on HT seduce tech that a lot of people should already know. I'll say they probably need more testing before anybody can conclusively say they work for PB though.

    I'm not sure keeping things a secret is really the point. I think it's more fun when squads come up with their own solutions and don't get biased from other results. Let knowledge flow around when people figure out what works and what doesn't work is my take on it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
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  11. Vowels
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    Vowels Mr. Anchor

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    It's possible to enjoy the content doing test runs and figuring a strategy out with your squad, if Vengeance decided to spoonfeed us wouldn't it be more boring? It also wouldn't make sense for them to share knowledge if they happen to feel competitive about clears like most squads do
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 5
    • Agree Agree x 2
  12. MrPresident
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    MrPresident Capt. Latanica

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    After running a few more times my initial thought of using 2 status effects to block sed doesn't really work. For some reason I think it casts reverse more often than weakness but it could just be a small sample size. I was hoping the main strategy would be to keep weakness so that you can't jump anyways and then if you get reversed you won't even get sed. The other idea was to have sed mules enter first (warriors/thieves) which works until people start getting banished because then the enter order gets screwed up. The main strategy people seem to be using is holy shield > TL > holy shield which works well enough if the group is strong to clear in that time frame. Some combination of sed mules, TL management, and hoping for weakness is probably enough to clear statues without taking touch damage. That said I actually think body is significantly worse than statues right now. The bean is pretty hard to control/position properly so there could be times it walks right through the buccs/warriors and ranged might tank touch damage. A hard to control bean also forces more people on the right side which hurts non NL/pally a lot more than other classes. I want to run a few more times before coming to a final conclusion but I think right now body makes NL/pally too good and drops everybody else down at least a tier.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  13. shck
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    shck Timer Retired Staff

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    PB post-patch is easier than pre-patch overall. The issue is getting people to listen and coordinate well. Having sliding/teleporting bean bug only makes it slightly harder.

    EDIT: Now I actually have time to type some shit.
    After 1 test run(that didn't even go past stage 4 kekw), statues became a non-issue.
    Insights on main body strategy came mostly from watching 1pink bean stream 10hrs before the run and speaking with someone who actually understands aggro. Figuring out a workaround for the sliding bean was slightly tricky, but not impossible.
    The actual boss fight is getting your instructions across to runners. There are multiple mistakes that could jeopardize an entire run but are all easily avoidable, more so than before the changes were made.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
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  14. Awrien
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    Awrien Horny Mushroom

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    Does weakness prevent jump sed? I know in HT, the jumping in place sed would still occur through weakness, but is it different for jump left/right?
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. Awrien
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    Awrien Horny Mushroom

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    I also just thought about what might be happening. If you have 2 status debuffs active already you won't get a third, giving you sed immunity. That could be happening if you're keeping weakness active, and is also a strategy to use
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. MrPresident
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    MrPresident Capt. Latanica

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    Looked at a previous recording and you're right weakness doesn't stop jumping during bird sed. Seems like a bug imo but it's probably intended.
     
  17. Mellona
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    Mellona Mano

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    I think the new bird mechanic is quite a fun change, sometimes you just die ;D. But this change really affects those 18-20 man squads. It’ll be interesting to see how those squads with fewer bishops handle sed during statue.
     
  18. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Weakness doesn't stop from jump sed even in HT.
     
  19. iPippy
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    iPippy Nightshadow

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    Its not nearly as interesting as you'd think. It just means more bishop mules are brought in and placed in party for their 40 seconds of fame. And combined with mini bean resistance thats practically all a real bishop is expected to do anyways. Right bird getting to play the game is cool, but the statues as a whole are a lot less interactive as they all just wait their turn to die, making the statue freeze even more noticeable.

    #JusticeForStatueAggro
     

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