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November 2023 Balance Changes Feedback Thread

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by beegoratto, Nov 30, 2023.

  1. iPippy
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    iPippy Nightshadow

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    I assume the 3 pets and pet looting items will be provided to us upon entering the bonus stage?
     
    • Creative Creative x 5
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  2. HotCow
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    HotCow Pink Teddy

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    Amazing work! This definitely fixes the concerns i had about the bonus.
     
  3. Tarnished
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    Tarnished Selkie Jr.

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    Amazing changes, the teleporter will definitely resolve any bonus concerns I had. Thanks especially for posting the looting vids.

    These are techniques that would have taken time intensive trial and error to figure out, staff sharing that knowledge is greatly appreciated
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. Mirrors
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    Mirrors Game Moderator Staff Member Game Moderator

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    Hooray for staff for listening to community feedback. :D Really happy to see the teleporter changes and the movespeed changes. Hopefully the next patch can come soon!

    The APQ bonus changes are incredible btw! Bonus feels really great spawning top left/right, and it's a lot easier to get the previously inaccessible boxes. :)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  5. Endorphinss
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    Endorphinss Pac Pinky

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    Thank you for listening and making quick changes, even if it's only next patch.
     
  6. xiaoyaoz
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    xiaoyaoz Balance Team Staff Member Balance Team

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    Btw, I'm wondering exactly how much should the pirate boss be more viable to other classes? At the extreme situation that it becomes too viable, I can imagine players might even opt to cleave both mage and pirate at the same time, which will change the current archers unique position in cwkpq, or worse, just decimate non-cleave classes for cwkpq.
    Even just reducing the frequency of shark attacks, may result in a situation where other range classes do better damage than archers and just replaces them.
    I imagine somewhere in between would be the solution, but where exactly? or should we just keep archers unique position in cwkpq?

    If others have any opinion on it, please add them in :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2023
  7. OP
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    beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    Agreed on both points. The current state of requiring them to be separated is actually really interesting and a positive thing because it requires teamwork rather than just unga bunga. It's also nice having a unique archer role.

    IMO the current state of pirate boss is fine as is, although I might make a suggestion of slightly reducing the dispel range so that in emergencies Buccs can pin with demo without being dispelled. Overall I think things are fine as is though.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. pharaoh
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    pharaoh Master Chronos

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    I've mentioned this many times before and I think it always gets ignored because not many people play the class, but I think MMs should be able to pin the pirate boss without requiring SI. This is especially a huge barrier for new players who don't have a bucc they can bring in. A possible way to make this change could be to slightly lower pirate's movespeed (by maybe 5 or 10%?), so that hamstring isn't needed (which MMs don't have).
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2023
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  9. OP
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    beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    Actually I lied about what I said earlier in that the pirate boss is fine as is, I agree with this suggestion. I think making the fight slightly more accessible to MMs would be good.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    what if you take out blind changes (xdddd) and make snipe give some hamstring like effect
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  11. pharaoh
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    pharaoh Master Chronos

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    This is a much better suggestion but no one believes me when I say blind is useless so I thought I'd present a suggestion that was more digestible to those in power.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2023
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  12. OP
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    beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    I'd imagine there would be concerns about overlap with the BM skillset, I think.
     
  13. iPippy
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    iPippy Nightshadow

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    Give bms blind then.
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  14. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    thats ok because they still need more damage to pin effectively and can't close their eyes and read reddit like bm
     
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  15. ryanlights
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    ryanlights Windraider

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    This is not an accurate representation of the average player's experience with CWKPQ bonus.

    This is from the POV of a GM in test server conditions where there are no repercussions for failure and there are no consequences for grief.

    You are not the target demographic in this example.

    I will paint the picture. You are apart of a group of 3-5 other players, embarking upon CWKPQ additional you decide to bring a MoN buyer to help recover some potion cost splitting 15mill amongst the team for the pendant sale.

    You now need to have already brought and prepared that group of players, plus the specific requirements for CWKPQ (yes they have been reduced but that is not the point, you still require si for MM, si for Warrior, HS for all, Haste for mobility...... you get the point). CWKPQ is very involved.

    Now you've finally made it through the run, after about 40 minutes to 1 hour, only to have your stress levels maximized moreso than ever before because of the destroyed mobility from pre-patch that you were used to. As beegorattobeegoratto mentioned this is meant to be the point in the run where things are NOT supposed to be stressful and you feel good about your time spent and you WANT to be rewarded for your efforts, only to miss 1 single jump at the start due to nerves and you are shook beyond belief and never want to do CWKPQ again. Better yet, maybe even uninstall the game and never play again.

    I know this may sound very overdramatic but this is the case for many players as we would obviously want to retain as much of our population as possible, but with changes that seem like they were not tested in "real gameplay" situations, why even implement this headache to begin with? I am not saying it is a bad change I just think it was not fully tested enough before patch went live, felt rushed and imposed.

    If I am wrong please reply.
     
    • Creative Creative x 4
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  16. Tarnished
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    Tarnished Selkie Jr.

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    Pirate still has protection against melees because of dispel and KB, I can't think of any class that would prefer to cleave mage+pirate aside from maybe I/L and DK unless it's somehow the only option

    That being said, Pirate pin is already not unique to Archer - a strong NL is perfectly capable of soloing Mage + Pirate even at the same time although they might use some kind of mule to assist. Corsair could do it too but it's just painful without avoid. What keeps Archer's CWK position secure is the archer room, and if you brought a strong SE you might as well use it for Pirate pin

    The main struggle if we're talking specifically about the boss fight is that usually Pirate Pin finishes last and the only chars that can realistically assist all 3 positions are NL+Shad. You could technically use other characters but IME people don't like to because it's annoying, so what usually happens is parties end up sitting around and waiting a combined 10-15 minutes between the Archer room and the Pirate boss for the BM to solo

    I don't necessarily think waiting around is a problem though, my main concern is it can be hard to find any archer to even get past the archer room.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2023
    • Agree Agree x 3
  17. DrChuchu
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    DrChuchu Balance Team Staff Member Balance Team

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    Opinions below represent mine and not those of the Staff, in part or as a whole.

    I would love to have tested more, but 5-10 hours on solo CWKing is quite a bit, wouldn't you agree? Perhaps I gave the wrong impression to staff based on the bonus tests, but I would not try any less hard on test server or on live. It's probably just my own inexperience in a lot of ways, but I did test every single aspect of the PQ personally (lol 5 man CWK). Unfortunately the current patch is how it is for now, so if you want to hold a grudge until next patch feel free to blame me.
     
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  18. xiaoyaoz
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    xiaoyaoz Balance Team Staff Member Balance Team

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    That also poses the question, should archer room uniquely so much harder than the other rooms? just so that archer can have their unique position in cwkpq?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. pharaoh
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    pharaoh Master Chronos

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    If anything the other rooms are too easy.
     
    • Agree Agree x 9
  20. OP
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    beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    I will say the mage room is quite fun, even if it's short. That's the only one out of all them I really enjoy.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1

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