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November 2023 Balance Changes Feedback Thread

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by beegoratto, Nov 30, 2023.

  1. Tarnished
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    Tarnished Pac Pinky

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    Yeah that's a difficult question. If Archer room were easier, then maybe archer would lose its guaranteed spot in the PQ. Personally though I don't think archer DPM falls so short of other ranged attackers that they'd be min-maxed out of a job except maybe in 2-mans, especially since so much of CWK clear speed is based on party coordination.

    I can say out of experience though especially for newer players looking for 4-6 mans, the Archer strength requirement is disproportionately high and it's further exacerbated by the nature of washing and W.DEF. When I first started CWK, our parties were all newer players and we were doing scuffed runs where we force fed the BM apples just to clear Archer room, then forced the BM to draw aggro with puppet long enough for everyone else to finish their bosses and dogpile onto Pirate.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2023
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  2. ryanlights
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    ryanlights Windraider

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    I'd like to add this on, that while yes the archer room is most difficulty, of all rooms. Yes, you could make it easier but that mindset is thinking too small-scale. Making things easier in CWKPQ may help inside CWKPQ for the average Archer player's barrier to entry to be reduced but that does not really do much else for Archer in-general.

    Archers still exist outside of CWKPQ whereas they are still just as useful.

    The main problem is underpower level of them compared to Night Lord and even Corsair.

    I'd say, as I've mentioned before about DK's damage output, is just simply buff the damage Archer outputs to make it on-par with which will make CWKPQ's Archer room have the same result that you'd be putting into it regardless. Archer class itself is overdue for a revamp.
     
  3. ryanlights
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    ryanlights Windraider

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    There is no hard feelings or "grudge". I was just pointing the real scenario of actual player experience I have seen. rip nutellaa

    It is ok to be inexperienced in CWKPQ, but the fact that you push yourself to try to improve speaks to me and I know you can do what you set out to achieve! Don't let my words discourage you because criticism is in a way, a sense of learning and progression.

    Hopefully we can have CWKPQ continue to thrive and be fun gameplay for all to enjoy.
     
  4. LeonardoJF
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    LeonardoJF Zakum

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    well scored, especially since it now needs less sign
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Tarnished
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    Tarnished Pac Pinky

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    Actually there's another topic I want to point out regarding the bonus stage, which is that the alignment of the bonus boxes are not all evenly spaced. This is most relevant when using the "lay down on the ground and poke with a spear" strat as demonstrated in Chu's videos which is the fastest way to open boxes

    Untitled.jpg

    Imagine if I'm looting #2 Top Right for a 3-man. I would want to path following the Green Arrow because it's the least wasted travel and gives your pets the most chances to loot. You would start on the top right platform, lie down to open the first pair of boxes, move right then open the 2nd pair of boxes. Then you would directly drop down and be able to hit that pair of boxes on the 2nd row without having to horizontally reposition. Then you would move left again and open the remaining pair of boxes in the 2nd-from-top row.

    At this point you would drop down and intuitively expect to be able to double-poke the 3rd row of boxes, just like you did between the 1st and 2nd row. But actually because of the horizonal misalignment between the 2nd and 3rd row, you could be in a position where you can't poke both boxes at once even though you were properly aligned to hit the boxes in the 2nd row.

    There are other areas that are unintuitively misaligned too, the #1 position has the same issue on the left side of the map, and we can visibly see that the bottom right box is quite a bit further than other boxes. Every misalignment is an added risk of missing an attack, which can be pretty financially punishing. The misalignment is extra troublesome because the hitboxes on either the spear poke or the chests themselves are not the most visually precise, it's not always immediately obvious if you're in range to hit both chests in a pair.

    I don't know if this is by design, and of course seasoned CWK runners generally don't miss, but thought it would be good to point out because they can definitely trip up new CWKers.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2023
    • Informative Informative x 2
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  6. ryanlights
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    ryanlights Windraider

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    BIG AGREE, if APQ Bonus room's QOL improvement can be done, so can CWKPQ's.

    I think the new APQ bonus room is now much improved, because it keeps in-mind spacing, entry location and room for players to spread out (basically all of TarnishedTarnished's data points).

    Looks like we need to take the time to adapt and improve upon gMS's layout here as well.
     
  7. UnknownCode
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    UnknownCode Nightshadow

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    Just curious as to how boxes are shared in-between if pets are involved with looting items because sometimes pet loots items that aren't from its owner, would it be possible for pets to only loot what boxes its owner destroyed?
     
  8. OP
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    beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    If you’re worried you can leave party. Pets won’t loot boxes outside your party.
     
  9. UnknownCode
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    UnknownCode Nightshadow

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    Leaving party in bonus doesn't kick you out? O_O

    Since when was that a thing
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. OP
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    beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    It has never done that unless you were the expedition leader. And even that has been changed this patch.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. Jean
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    Jean Wolfspider

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    i hope the staff balance the party quest so everyone can enjoy i know is impossible to do that but i think to make good balance that most players will enjoy is good enough.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
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  12. Jean
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    Jean Wolfspider

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    like if someone make a review a party quest and most thing they say is good that is enough to make a good party quest like need to be at least 8 out of 10 to make a good party quest so i hope the staff listen what people say only focus on the problem that players don't like the most.
     
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  13. Subterlabor
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    Subterlabor Nightshadow

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    Pirate boss pirate boss pirate boss. It's been mentioned probably a million times but his massive aggro range+aggro parameters makes life a huge pita even being a 17x BM with max Hamstring. Everytime I puppet I get a lag spike and he locks down on mage pin no matter how fast I am. I can't go a single run without it happening atleast once. I don't see any reason whatsoever why this should be. Why is he locking on someone thats on the other end of the platform or focusing on chars underneath him? His aggro distance needs to be reduced or changed in some way. It would also make it much easier for mm like TommygunnerTommygunner to be able ti reliably pin him, because as it is I'm almost bow whacking distance from Mage, he'll be on pirate and without Hamstring+constant kb from Hurricane he has a hell of a time keeping pirate controlled to the point its not worth it for him.

    Lf>QoL
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2023
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  14. Subterlabor
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    Subterlabor Nightshadow

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    From a BM who mains cwkpq as my content (mage or pirate pin) I think we should keep it as is with a few tweaks. My main concern is if its tweaked too much we'll see NL's with SE mules soloing range. I would suggest slowing him down slightly, and reducing his aggro distance so our MM brothers are able to reliably pin pirate (with a bit of practice) without pirate locking down on the mage pin and making a sloppy pin.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Subterlabor
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    Subterlabor Nightshadow

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    Honestly the dpm required to clear room isn't very high, 5800 range. If you can pin pirate (15k lines) you can clear room. The bigger issue I see is host doesn't balance the party properly, which I sometimes do to myself. Don't put 2 180 heros in cleave, 180 NL on mage and expect pirate to be the first to die lol
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Aggro mechanics are weird and I doubt we'll ever get it perfect - at this point weird aggro is a feature. To be fair, it's a lot better these days and I prefer it to what it used to be, when bosses used to rubber band and teleport out of nowhere.

    That being said, I don't think you should be having this much difficulty as a BM. It's something you have to learn by timing things properly, and it becomes second nature after awhile. My technique is to just keep holding down hurricane after puppet expires until Pirate throws one shark out - which I dodge by dropping down and replacing puppet. In order for puppet to work properly, you need to have aggro on Pirate first, and to do that, you need to be hitting him after puppet expires. Some people make the mistake of dropping down and recasting puppet before it expires which means Pirate aggro resets to nothing -- all the while, you're below deck and out of range, your puppet has nothing to draw aggro from, and the nearest target to Pirate is your mage pinner.
     
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  17. Subterlabor
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    Subterlabor Nightshadow

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    Yeah I do similar, make sure he kb's atleast once after puppet expires but sometimes he just glues instantly to mage pin. I thought it was ping related which is why I moved my entire computer setup 2 floors down to my basement just to hardwire into the internet modem, but that only made it slightly better.
     

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