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POLL: Would you play a GROUP IRONMAN in ML???

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Skuire, Feb 9, 2024.

Would you play a GROUP IRONMAN in ML???

  1. I would probably play!

    61.3%
  2. I might play.

    16.1%
  3. I wouldn't play.

    22.6%
  1. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    leetoratto
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    I think in regards to your linked post, it does nothing to address things like multiclient. It just opens the door to different styles of play and rotating fotm events, which I think is a good thing for engagement.
     
  2. teenager
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    teenager Mano

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    I think it does implicitly address multi-client though, it's kind of in the Osslock rules:
    6. No leeching.
    7. No buff muling/benefiting from other player's buff mules.
    8. No multi client farming. While the use of alts & secondary characters is allowed, simultaneous farming of items, mesos, events, exp, etc is forbidden.​
     
  3. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    Yes but if none of those rules are applied server-wide it doesn’t actually address those problems. I think the main goal of official support for this should be to encourage new styles of play, not try to fix the economy. I actually don’t agree with the osslock rules (no multiclient, no 4th job, no leech, no mule, etc)
     
  4. Charles
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    Charles Pink Teddy

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    SkuireSkuire as they said, there was briefly an ironman guild but it was like 3 active members and I don't think there was ever a forum post or any traction. IF you create a challenge, I'm there.
     
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  5. Taima
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    Taima Mushmom

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    [I'm just posting to be informative about some community information that might be confusing, not to pull away anyone from this idea. I appreciate the positivity and fresh life this group wants to breathe into the game. ML appears to have a rocky history with getting a proper iron community started, so any new ideas, feature suggestions, communities and guilds are welcome. We all just want to see an awesome challenge blossom!]

    To my knowledge the "dead" IronMan (actually named "ironman") guild is this guild which has only one member at this point. I don't have much info since I didn't get to know them. MapleF4 Could be related to this thread or maybe it isn't, hard to figure out since some of the original players involved may have quit. May we see a revival some day..? MapleF1:thumbsup:

    There is actually an active ironman guild in the Suboptimal alliance, with a small but tight-knit following. I'm not the leader but have been meaning to pull together a guild recruitment thread. It's under the name lronman ("Lronman"), found here on the rankings. The guild flies under the radar not necessarily by intention but that's how it has ended up. Mainly lronman has just gained members from sharing an alliance with other guilds based around restricting one's playstyle (area-locks [Victoria, Ossyrians], job restrictions [Oddjobs], and anything-goes good vibes with a huge number of permabeginner members [Flow]). There's only one fourth job player in the guild, Jonathan, the guild leader who's had that character since late 2022. There's a similar "go at a chill and reasonable pace" vibe and I'm sure people doing these challenges prefer it that way to fighting over who's #1.

    One thing that has kept the guild from making a proper public post is that we haven't fully worked out the rules around obtaining 4th job skillbooks and mastery books when they require entering expeditions, El Nath PQ, or partying up. Jonathan is slowly figuring out how he wants to do that for his character, and it's hard to create a proper ruleset for others when everyone's got a different idea of what iron challenges in Maple should look like. lronman (the guild) is comprised mostly of "single-player" character iron challenges where no trading or partying of any kind is permitted, but it's also open to anyone who wants to do area-locks ("single-player" or group style), group ironmen, or further restricted characters on top of ironman, too.

    This is not a recruitment post.
    This thread isn't the place for it, and I want your group ironman challenge to take off and succeed. The iron playerbase is genuinely so deeply disorganized so far that it'd be helpful to share info between the different communities that spring up. There are a lot of ironman characters (specifically chosen to be ironmen, or that just happen to play like ironmen) without guilds, too.

    The iron playerbase may still be rather small, but it's starting to look like the islander playerbase, where there's multiple guilds and alliances and solo offshoots, where it's possible for lines of communication to be cut between the many branches of players trying to do the same challenge, and that... is actually a good thing! :pinkbean: Rejoice in the shared of interest of ironman challenges, I say! I'm not telling you what to do, but I suggest looking at the Islander Community Thread as an example of fine cooperation between Maplers trying to do something really cool and challenging, that has endured for over 8 years since the first post and spans almost 100 pages of pure good vibes. In the first post there is some general info about what an islander is, the different types of island builds, resources for what items are available, tips, and finally a listing of multiple Islander guilds at the time of thread creation. It's so perfect, I might cry just thinking about it. So, what if we took the community thread idea, and sort of did something like... this?

    ironman_and_islander_challenges_diagram.png

    The point I'm driving home is, it may be helpful for newcomers and healthy for the playerbase at large if some of the most deeply-interested stewards of ironman challenges got together under one Ironman Community Thread that lists out the different communities. There could be a home here in the forums for players to post their sweet iron moments, even if they are differing styles of ironman, and even if they don't join any particular community or guild. It doesn't have to be done this way, and this group ironman challenge can just be its own thing in its own thread, and that would be cool too. I don't plan to play the group ironman challenge (only because I'm really into the isolated iron playstyle) but can't wait to see where it goes. It's a fantastic idea, and I'll watch your progress! MapleF15:tick:
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2024
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  6. Wensleydale
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    Wensleydale Horny Mushroom

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    Wensleydale
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    I think decoupling this group ironman attempt from all past iterations would be healthy. Though we can learn valuable lessons from those attempts on why they didn't work.

    1. There needs to be documentation and a consensus on what is allowed and what is not.
    2. There needs to be advertising so that people actually know the community exists. (both forum thread and discord community)
    3. There needs to be a central organizer or committee who take things seriously
    4. All aspects of challenge need to be planned ahead of time

    I think that many of the current challenges are underwhelming because they do not follow these rules. Without that work being put in beforehand, those challenges lead to in-fighting rather than enjoyment.

    That being said, I'd be potentially interested.
     
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  7. OP
    OP
    Skuire
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    Skuire Nightshadow

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    Here's my current take on NX, and why I specified that I think players should create a new account.
    NX actually provides a ton of in-game advantages, especially if you've got 6 or 7 figures worth of it. You get:

    - Teleport rocks to trivialize all transportation, make walking anywhere or optimizing travel routes almost completely irrelevant.
    - Free map-wide buffs that normally wouldn't be accessible in the early game - you've got Soccer Fever which gives +15-20 speed and jump for 5-10 minutes, Hearty Party Bear which gives a 10-15 att buff, downplaying the importance of buffing each other or actually paying for buffs, as long as you've got tons of NX to burn.
    - As many pets and pet equips as you'd ever want, available immediately
    - Instant maximum storage and inventory so you never need to worry about managing your inventory space again.

    (this is not even to mention near-infinite access to AP and SP resets to re-tweak your build any time you choose)​

    So here are the benefits we might achieve by requiring players to create a fresh account in order to play.

    1. More genuine gameplay experience if you can't easily cheese the early game with free nx buffs (soccer fever, party bear), eliminate all travel with teleport rocks, triple your pets from day 0, or purchase endless storage to consume all items without a second thought.

    2. Not everyone has access to a large amount of NX, so it's more fair if everyone starts from the same baseline.

    3. Storage and cash inventory are shared between characters on the same account, which can be unnecessarily confusing, plus it would be easier to isolate the challenge ecosystem from outside influence when everyone agrees to play on a fresh account.

    Personally I better like the idea of building up NX benefits over time as your character progresses. This would require you to budget and think about where you want to allocate your resources. Should I get more pet equips for improved looting, or should I expand my storage, or should I gamble for a cool new hairstyle? It's more fun, more earned, and less cheesy.


    With regard to the poll... I wanted to give some time for discussion before bringing it up. Poll's up now!


    +1, I like the thought you've put into this. All your points are very reasonable and pragmatic. Great post, I'll keep these in mind.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2024
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  8. Charles
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    Charles Pink Teddy

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    Well let's get it. Devilish
     
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  9. creative
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    creative Capt. Latanica

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    If the restrictions were in place for playing, I would play for sure. That also goes for OSS lock (ChrisChris knows...)
     
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  10. Naked Nock
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    Naked Nock Blue Snail

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    I'm fairly interested in this.
     
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  11. Charles
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    Charles Pink Teddy

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    I want to make my character but since we can party with each other I kind of want to see what everyone else will make... wackomush
     
  12. OP
    OP
    Skuire
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    Skuire Nightshadow

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    Thanks for all your support and input!

    Because of the interest shown in this topic, I'll go ahead and create a genuine thread with a proposed rulebook, discord server, and launch date.

    Important: Please refrain from creating and playing a character until the challenge has launched and the guidelines for play have been established. I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I'm sorry to say that any characters started prematurely will be void and unable to participate. I would also add that the challenge can only be successful if all participants agree to follow the same set of rules, and so I cannot make exceptions for individuals unless there is a very good reason to do so.

    In the meantime, it would be great if you could help spread the word about our campaign and the community we're hoping to cultivate. If you think you could be helpful in setting up the challenge, or have input about rules and logistics, please contact me on discord: username sku.exe.


    Feel free to keep discussion going within this thread until the next one comes up!
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2024
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  13. kiwiz
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    kiwiz Skelegon

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    I feel that restricting gameplay to a new account, single client, and self-reliance would be sufficient and plenty of fun.

    You can still engage with the current market but only with scrolls and clean, unscrolled gears, so you have to scroll everything yourself. 10%, 60%, and 70% weapon scrolls are relatively affordable and contribute the most damage to your character. The rest of the scrolls are more of luxury goods.

    If you want to add a bit of challenge, you can make it such that in order to purchase an item or scroll from the market, you will have to first "unlock" them by acquiring the first piece yourself, either through mob drops, quest rewards, or gacha pulls. This unlocking concept was taken from the card challenge I attempted a while ago. Although I only finished the first tier, the unlocking adds another layer of fun to it.

    Adding the requirement that players can only purchase items they have in their inventory and must reacquire them through drops, rewards, or gacha pulls if discarded does add an interesting layer of challenge to the gameplay. It encourages resource management and some careful decision-making.

    Also, the idea of unlocking areas with different monster book ring tiers could be a fun addition as well. For example, you can only use the Ellinia airship after you have attained at least a tier 1 ring, and unlock Ludibrium with tier 2, and so on for different areas.

    The idea of unlocking additional inventory space as a reward for reaching certain levels adds another strategic element to the game. It gives players a tangible benefit for leveling up and encourages a diverse range of activities, reinforcing the idea that different in-game actions contribute to various aspects of character progress. This could enhance the overall gaming experience and engagement.

    Balancing challenges and restrictions is crucial in maintaining player engagement. Too many restrictions, especially in a low-rate server, can lead to frustration and burnout. It's essential to strike a balance that provides challenges without overwhelming players, ensuring a steady sense of progression and enjoyment.

    Players need to feel that they make some meaningful progress with every session of gameplay, even if it’s an hour spent in the market shopping for some cheap 10%, 60%, 70% scrolls, or grinding a million meso early in the game, collecting a card set or unlocking new items to purchase contributes to their motivation, encouraging them to look forward to their next session. The arbitrary unlock systems should fulfil this role of providing motivation by granting access to new items or moving closer to the next ring tier, subsequently unlocking new locations to explore, which players can always look forward to.
     
  14. Charles
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    Charles Pink Teddy

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    Hopefully you can get it started soon, I'm excited. I made a character only because I wanted a specific name but I will hold off playing.
     
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  15. Palladino
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    Palladino Master Chronos

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    DISALLOWED!!!
     
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  16. Prudence55
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    Prudence55 Stone Golem

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    I'd like to record my gameplay and put whatever music I'm vibin' too with no commentary or not, and upload it onto some site that's not youtube so I don't get DAIZ**DA'd. What suggestions for a platform to upload videos to? It would also help me stay stick to the rules and see how bad of a gamer I am.
     
  17. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    leetoratto
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    Streamable if you're willing to pay for a subscription otherwise really YouTube is your only realistic option. Not a lot of sites really trying to do video hosting.

    FWIW I have had zero issues uploading to YT by just keeping all my videos unlisted.
     
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  18. Charles
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    Charles Pink Teddy

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    I'll probably start soon, I'm impatient.
     
  19. Charles
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    Charles Pink Teddy

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    Buddied :)
     
  20. Wensleydale
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    Wensleydale Horny Mushroom

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    Might be easier to post the discord community link here before posting the new thread. It'll give everyone a better idea who is actually interested and provide a better place for challenge discussion. Especially since others have started creating their chars :p
     
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