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Potion balancing & triangular sushi (plum)

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by MrPresident, Apr 2, 2020.

  1. MrPresident
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    MrPresident Capt. Latanica

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    Now that my sushi stock is running low I figure it's a good time to discuss and write out why I want sushi in the game so much. Let's take a fairly average ranged character that has 7k hp before HB and 11.2k after HB and then another ranged character with 11k base hp and 17.6k with HB. The chart below compares the meso per hp rates for 4 different potions (completely ignoring any MP healed if applicable).

    upload_2020-4-2_10-19-46.png

    Compare this to a drk that would be using melting cheese at a cost of 4.5k to heal 4k or reindeer milk at a cost of 5k to heal 5k. Remember that neither of these potions heal mp while the ranged character gets some mp from ginseng, gingers, and PE. The 7k base hp player gets a fairly large meso per hp discount that is likely wiped out through double potting so this is fairly well balanced to me. Meanwhile the 11k base hp player likely isn't ever double potting so they get a very significant healing discount. This is also comparing ranged vs cleave. If we compared the potion costs of a hero/pally to a drk the meso per hp discount would be even more significant.

    upload_2020-4-2_10-46-56.png

    The other complaint for healing costs on a drk comes from some bosses just not being worth doing because the healing costs outweigh the drops but that's a different balancing discussion.

    In the end I see 2 very viable solutions to bring drk potion costs more in line with every other class in the game. The first would be to increase all of the NLC potion costs to be more in line with literally every other HP potion in the game (1 meso for 1 hp). The second and probably more viable solution would be to add triangular sushi (plum) at an NPC for purchasing.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Creative Creative x 1
  2. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    Solution 3: Make every event going forward give out sushi as the crap potion prize and we all duey our sushi to mrpresident!
     
    • Creative Creative x 3
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  3. Kanade
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    Kanade Mixed Golem

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    658759666708512788.png Buff to DRKs? Agree. Anything else? Fuk em.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. SaviorSword
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    SaviorSword Dark Stone Golem

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    How much would the j̶e̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶d̶o̶n̶u̶t̶s̶ o̶n̶i̶g̶i̶r̶i̶ sushi will be sold at? Where would they be sold from?
     
  5. OP
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    MrPresident
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    MrPresident Capt. Latanica

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    If it was up to me I'd put them in this NPC at Ninja Castle. Fits the theme of the area and this NPC already sells some use items compared to the other guy who only sells weapons. https://maplelegends.com/lib/npc?id=9110101

    As for cost I think somewhere between 3-4k meso each is fairly reasonable. There's no real logic in that range given NLC pots are still cheaper but even at 4k meso the healing would still be .667 meso per HP and also heal some mp. This would still be a significant improvement over cheese which is 1.12 meso per HP and milk at 1 meso per HP. while neither give any MP.

    Edit: Changing NPC to this one which already sells potions as Eiji pointed out. I completely forgot he was inside the castle already.
    https://maplelegends.com/lib/npc?id=9110102
     
  6. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    The difference in cost stems from the fact that NLC pots are synthetic and can easily be mass produced in a post-industrialized NLC. Melting Cheese and Reindeer Milk are hand-crafted, artisanal-grade goods from boutiques using tried-and-true methods involving much more labor-intensive procedures.

    The problem isn't that NLC pots are too cheap. The problem is the reason why they are cheap - the cruel dehumanization of urbanized NPCs with the exploitation of underpaid labor along with the industry's impending adoption of automation.

    With that said, what you are asking for is not possible without bringing much disrespect to Japanese traditional culture and the art of sushi. You are asking skilled tradesmen of sushi chef NPCs whom have dedicated their entire NPC lives to the art of making sushi to close down their shops in order to pump out gas-station-grade onigiri. Would you ask Jiro to serve his sushi in vending machines? For the sake of efficiency? Of course not, don't be absurd.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  7. Daydreamer
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    Daydreamer Headless Horseman

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    The real issue is how broken the NLC potions are.
     
  8. OP
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    MrPresident
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    MrPresident Capt. Latanica

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    Definitely agree but I think it’d be significantly harder to balance NLC potions versus adding a better priced zerk potion. I personally don’t think it’s even possible to balance NLC potions because some people wash and others don’t so what do you balance it to? It’d also impact everybody on the server versus implementing one potion that only impacts one class because I doubt anybody would use a 20% pot besides for zerk.
     
  9. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    President if this sushi thing gets implemented, I will buy these to use in zakum so i can be a potatoe and not dismount 1/1.

    I hp washed wayyy too much so my boat takes too much damage if i get hit by 1/1.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. iPippy
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    iPippy Nightshadow

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    Sairs are just ranged dks. Change my mind
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  11. Daydreamer
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    Daydreamer Headless Horseman

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    You HP washed too much? How does that work?
     
  12. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    It was a joke, as you can't really hp wash too much. But, for corsairs, if you have high HP you are more vulnerable to 1/1 attacks.

    **Note HP Washing a corsair is still highly recommended**

    For example lets compare two corsairs, one with 15k hp, and one with 5k hp.

    Both of these corsairs can survive zakum. However, when zakum casts 1/1 (the spell that reduces your hp and mp to 1), it does 14999 damage to the 15k HP corsair, and only 4999 damage to 5k HP corsair.

    Thus, the high HP corsairs boat took 14999 damage, and the low hp Corsair's boat only took 4999 damage.

    When the boat takes too much damage it breaks and goes on cooldown, forcing you to use weak skills to do damage like rapidfire, reducing your dpm.

    As a corsair you can deal with this by dismounting your ship, so you don't take ship damage, but if you don't want to dismount, the only way for the high HP corsair to reduce the ship damage is to have less HP.

    So, if the high HP corsair "zerks" like a dark knight, and purposely leaves their HP at 5k, they will only take 4999 ship damage when zakum uses 1/1. The same damage that the low HP corsair took.

    Sushi would be a really nice potion to help manage your HP so that it stays in the lower range.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  13. iPippy
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    iPippy Nightshadow

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    Easiest solution is to wash the ship too
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. OP
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    MrPresident
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    MrPresident Capt. Latanica

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    Sushi bump? If there's no chance for sushi to be added through an NPC then can we at least buy more than 100 at a time from Mo? Trying to buy 1000 milk at a time gets kind of annoying when it's 10 sets of 100.
    upload_2020-4-6_18-52-57.png
     
  15. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    Is it easier to see it go -5,000,000 mesos rather than -500,000 mesos?

    OnionGhost
     
  16. OP
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    MrPresident
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    MrPresident Capt. Latanica

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    upload_2020-5-1_13-30-59.png

    upload_2020-5-1_13-31-15.png

    Didn't know this miso ramen potion existed. NLC potions are BaLaNcEd SeemsGood
     
  17. Fishy
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    Fishy Skelegon Retired Staff

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    theres the potion NPC dude inside the wall, at the samurai map, thats where they are in GMS as well
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. OP
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    MrPresident Capt. Latanica

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    Not sure if you mean this NPC but I forgot it existed. Definitely a much better option for selling potions.

    https://maplelegends.com/lib/npc?id=9110102
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  19. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    LF>Sushi in either every event or added to this NPC.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Kanade
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    Kanade Mixed Golem

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