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Pretigious coin expiration +ws/cs

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by RemiIia, Feb 7, 2023.

  1. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Skelosaurus

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    Even better :cool:
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Oolong
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    Oolong Dark Stone Golem Retired Staff

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    If only discord emotes can be used here to properly display my FELLINGD
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  3. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Skelosaurus

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    i would immediately hit you with the assmug
     
  4. HimeHam
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    HimeHam Pac Pinky

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    Players lose items on death
     
  5. Lin
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    Lin Headless Horseman

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    Players drop all their items in inventory and equip tab upon death like in minecraft
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 5
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  6. OP
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    RemiIia
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    RemiIia Slimy

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    players must wager their equipment(s) in card/ omok game.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. Tommygunner
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    Tommygunner Mixed Golem

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    TO BE HONEST i do think trading tax should be higher, i think it'll lessen the inflation and to a SMALL extent stop people from buying out a whole market to resell. for example if tax was 10% then you lose 20% during reselling.

    edit in hindsight i guess reseller only see loss of 10% since you really get taxed from reseller point of view when you resell. idk. if tax is higher it would encourage people to only buy if they're going to use it. im not very invested in this opinion though.
     
  8. twing1
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    twing1 Pink Teddy

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    What you are describing here is the market normalizing again after the potential change is implemented, with a key step missing:

    1. Coins/ws/cs expiry dates added
    2. Hoarder demand for these items drops out of the market
    3. Coin/ws/cs prices decrease
    4. Bossers move to multimaging
    5. Coin supply decreases
    6. Coin prices increase
    7. Multimagers move to bossing

    Steps 4-7 repeat until a new price is normalized.

    If the current market is any indication, the price of ~3.3m per coin is enough to make bossing a preferable alternative to mage farming for a lot of people.

    If coin prices rise after this hypothetical change is adopted (as you are predicting), bossing would become even more prevalent than it currently is, as people would be chasing that bag.

    What would likely happen (with a large portion of the demand for cs/ws/coins out of the market because they are no longer hoard able) is that there would not be enough demand to meet the supply, so prices will drop.

    If we also implement the aforementioned one-way coin to meso exchange, let's say at 2m/coin for example, then this value would act as the floor, or the lowest meso value coins could drop to.

    Because ~3.3m is the current price for coins, and that's with the current hoardability demand in the market, this can be used as a generous ceiling to the meso value of coins after the change. Because they will begin to expire, however, this is guaranteed to de-value them and drop this price.

    Even if what you suggest comes to fruition and that for some reason nerfng coins (by adding an expiry) while simultaneously removing demand for coins from the market actually does increase their meso value, this will actually promote more people to engage in bossing activities to reap the profits of selling these nerfed but more valuable coins. This would in turn increase the coin supply, and drop the price of the coins, and the cycle would repeat until the price normalizes again.

    But the point is this: the new balance would be coins being valued anywhere between their current market price and the floor that is set by the one-way coin to meso exchange value.

    The real danger with this is if there is not enough demand for coins to be sold to other players at all, and people begin just npcing their coins for the floor price, effectively printing mesos. If that becomes the case, the floor price can be dropped in response. If the price drop is too severe and people start moving back toward mage farming, then the floor price can be bumped back up. If it gets to this point, either method, mage farming or bossing, would be a meso printer and catalyze inflation. So then it would have failed.
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  9. Ainz
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    Ainz Zakum

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    what if we revert back to our runescape roots and just not let people scroll their weapons?
    boom dragon scimitar up ur butt
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  10. OP
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    RemiIia
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    RemiIia Slimy

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    you really dive deeper into this than anybody else and I applaud as you have seen through my mastermind plan
     
  11. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    You missed the part where the majority of coin supply being generated is being kept by people for personal use. Adding a decay will shift the use timeline, sure, but it'd be more seen as a one-time 'fuck you' to those who are simply amassing wealth for later use. This was done at the original implementation of prestigious coins where people were forced to pay a coin tax to transfer out their wealth onto other accounts. The decay of coins would be the same, but instead of coins entering the market, I think we'd just see a mass internalization of wealth by converting coins into things like perfected weapons which would then later be sold for another item that becomes a store of value (my guess now is either FS or MW30).

    As someone who bosses to produce coins, I can make about 13 coins a day, or 1 ws/cs in about a week. I use ws after collecting about 10-12 ws, or every 2 months. With the coin expiry, if coin prices fall, I would stop bossing and shift my production over to mesos as it doesn't make sense for me to invest my time on depreciating assets. I'm sure a lot more people would do the same. This causes a strain on the supply-side of coins. What happens when the supply drops significantly? The people who have access to large reserves of mesos will buy out the ones that do enter the market. We saw this happen before the prestigious coin implementation when WS supply was fairly scarce.

    Some people will continue to boss for coins, sure, but they'll have a set timeline on when they need to use their coins before they expire, which forces them into the market. If a person has 80 coins that are set to expire in the next 24 hours and wants to convert them into ws, but there are only 10 coins left on the market (note, supply of coins are now less than before, assuming more people shift over to meso farming strategies), how much would they be willing to overpay for an extra 10? Scale this situation up over the entire economy and you'll see a needlessly chaotic and volatile market.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Oolong
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    Oolong Dark Stone Golem Retired Staff

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    Brain too squishy. Too pea brain. All I'm thinking about is this is potentially being a coding nightmare Foxpat
     
  13. twing1
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    twing1 Pink Teddy

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    Even with the majority of coins being used for personal use, this is not a problem. I'm going to build off of your previous example. Your 80 coins are expiring in 24 hours, and you are trying to buy 20 coins before they do, but there are only 10 coins on market for fair market price. In desperation, you try buying coins for a price well above market value.

    I am sitting over here on my 50 coins I plan on using for personal use, but they expire in 2 months. I see you are buying coins for far above fair market value. It is in my best interest to sell you those 10 coins, and then some time within the next 2 months, when coins are back on the market for fair value, buy back my 10 coins at a fraction of the price. And there are 50+ others in the same position as I, because the majority of people are keeping their coins to themselves for personal use. If the price gets high enough, there will always be a supply.

    This is true to your next example as well: if you and everyone else all of a sudden stop bossing because you do not want to invest in a depreciating asset, that is fine. There will be strain on the supply, as you suggest. And, you are correct again in saying that the people who have access to large reserves of mesos will buy out whatever coins do enter the market, because they are willing to pay a higher price for them and can edge out their less wealthy competitors. But what does this do? This increases the price of coins, and creates a seller's market where whoever has coins can charge outrageous prices. This will lead to more people investing their time to farming coins, because those who spent their time mage farming for mesos are now looking to convert those mesos into coins and bossers can make a killing off of it. You can mage farm all you want, but in order to perfect a weapon you will still need coins to supplement whatever ws/cs you get from gacha. Because of this, there will always be a demand for coins, and if the supply doesn't meet the demand, prices will sky rocket to the point of pulling people back over to bossing.

    You are saying that this is a bad suggestion because if this were implemented, coin prices would sky rocket because everybody would switch over to mage farming. Yet, you are ignoring the effects a price hike of coins has on the number of people willing to enter the coin supply market. As coin prices increase, bossing becomes a more attractive alternative to mage farming, which will entice people to boss again.

    What you are saying would hold true if and only if mage farming could produce coins or enough ws/cs to meet the demand in the market, which is false. Because bossing and coins will always be the primary and more consistent way of obtaining ws/cs, there will always be a demand for coins, and if the supply temporarily drops to critically low levels, the price hikes will motivate more people to enter the market as coin suppliers. It will balance out.

    But I am not here to debate basic economics, only to voice my support for the suggestion on the theoretical level.

    As Oolong has pointed out however, there may be significant technical roadblocks that I cannot speak on.

    PS: You are also correct in saying that if this change were to be implemented, this would punish those who have spent time amassing large amounts of ws/cs or coins, and the change would definitely cut into their wealth more than Average Joe's. This would only help to close the massive wealth gap that currently exists in ML.
     
  14. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    This part is already in practice, and we've stabilized at 3.3m/coin. Making coins expire will simply reduce the total supply that is now reliant on a 3-month production timeline. In theory, the entirety of coins that can be produced within a 3-month timeframe is now being split amongst all users of the server. I'd hazard a guess that this is less total supply than what currently exists, and if bossing becomes a less reliable strategy for amassing wealth, that supply would only continue to drop over time.

    The people who enter larger white scroll projects will get screwed in the end as they're now all forced to be in the coin market for longer.
     
  15. Mageor
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    Mageor Mr. Anchor

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    I just don’t like the idea where you’re forced to never take a break from maple because your assets can expire.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  16. Assman
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    Assman Orange Mushroom

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    I did read all the threads that post in here, i think. And i being hiatus for quite some long time.

    I notice the CS/WS is untradeable now. So all my WS/CS are just going to personal use only. There is Coin Pouch also that in the market and is tradeable, that's not too bad.
    Different pouch give you a random amount of coins, why not try to make the coins untradeable and for personal use only and for all the things you buy using coins can be untradeable as well? Not all, but for certain things.

    - Coins you get is untradeable
    - Things you purchase from coins shop is untradeable

    Is this sound ridiculous?
     
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  17. Esmo
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    Esmo Pac Pinky

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    ur character lose its base hp upon death
     
  18. HimeHam
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    HimeHam Pac Pinky

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    your items lose stats every week
     
  19. OP
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    RemiIia
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    RemiIia Slimy

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    all refunded pouches untradeable and the coins from refund pouches untradeable?

    hmm..
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2023
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Assman
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    Assman Orange Mushroom

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    The pouches can be tradeable since is random number you getting, making it untradeable doesn't sound that good. But once you open up the pouches, the coins inside that you get will be untradeable. Good and bad? I guess. I haven't being playing that much after i came back, so i still haven't got used to the market flow. Sorry i got it wrong.
     

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