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Proposal to drop AP Reset price from 3,100 to 1,000

Discussion in 'Rejected' started by Notorious, Jan 28, 2022.

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  1. Notorious
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    Notorious King Slime

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    7:03 AM
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    Hi all! IGN's Balake and zkThor co-writing this. We're putting this here because we love ML, its community, and its tireless staff. We want to see it flourish.

    We know this topic has been raised many times before, and not to beat a dead horse, but we think we should have an honest and open conversation about why HP washing can't be made less of a pain point for the community right now.

    First, there appears to be agreement among both players and admins that the prerequisite of HP washing for access to the majority of end-game content is problematic. In our opinion, it is by far the single most problematic issue ML has overall. It presents a barrier to entry for new players. We have yet to hear anyone argue that is is a good thing that committed users must wait a full year before they can create the character they want to create.

    This begs the question, why has the status quo persisted? There are two arguments we've heard.

    The first is that staff don't want to remove the incentive for consistent voting. We understand that it is important that MapleLegends can outrank other servers and attract users. Bringing on new players is definitely important for the longevity of the server, and it's a good thing to optimize for.

    The second, as mentioned by Kimmy in her most recent end of year post, is that a proposal like this is more of a band-aid and doesn't resolve the underlying issue of why HP washing is needed in the first place. We understand that the age of the game means it has a lot of issues from the dev side, and a fundamental rework could one day solve a lot of this.

    However, a large rework like this has been discussed for years and is not likely to come in the foreseeable future (as far as we know).

    So... if we all agree that (1) HP washing is suboptimal, and (2) a major rework of game mechanics is not imminent, then why not make a change that will drastically improve user experience and retention in the short to medium term while we wait? While what we propose below may not be a perfect fix from a game architecture perspective, it will likely mean more people playing the characters they want to play, and a more attractive server for new players.

    We suggest dropping the price of AP resets from 3,100 to 1,000. We think this is the best option for a couple reasons:

    A) It does not introduce the dreaded "pay-to-win" dynamic.

    B) The fundamental voting mechanic remains the same. People are still encouraged to vote consistently and for a long duration.

    C) It is the lightest touch intervention with the fewest unintended side effects. For example, this will not change the value of washing INT equips and HP-scrolled items like other changes to HP mechanics might.

    D) High quality of life improvement with no real impact on old-school authenticity.

    E) Lets people play the jobs they want, and explore the content they want to, way earlier.

    F) Makes starting the game a bit less daunting for a new player.

    G) Implementation from a coding perspective would be easy.

    Thank you for taking the time to read this! We sincerely hope that staff will consider the arguments we've made, and if they disagree, explain why.

    Once again, we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place without all the hard work from staff. So much love.


    Cheers,

    Balake and zkThor
     
    • Disagree x 22
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  2. Oradious
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    Oradious Capt. Latanica

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    Not the first one to beat a dead horse and fail and definitely won't be the last
     
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  3. Kanade
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    Kanade Mixed Golem

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    11:03 PM
    The people who disagree are morons instead of hitting an X reaction why not provide meaningful feedback or a counter argument, the main gripe i see from the older community is stupid ass crab in a bucket mentality "I suffered so so should everyone one else"

    > The first is that staff don't want to remove the incentive for consistent voting.

    This is dumb, people are always arguing over smegas and flexing their items constantly or making alts to dress up. How would this hurt voting incentive. Why not create more NX sinks like..UPDATING THE GODDAMN CASH SHOP HOLY SHIT

    > The second, as mentioned by Kimmy in her most recent end of year post, is that a proposal like this is more of a band-aid and doesn't resolve the underlying issue of why HP washing is needed in the first place.

    Damn bro, vaccines for covid are just a band aid solution. Lets just not bother until we have a cure.
    tfw.png
     
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  4. Oradious
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    Oradious Capt. Latanica

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    The people who agree are on major copium thinking anything would be done about it. And of course, when people disagree, you just go about calling them morons.

    Seems like the uninformed lot are just lackadaisical and couldn't be bothered to read the hundreds of pages worth of discussion generated in previous washing threads.

    Idiocy is trying the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.
     
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  5. Kanade
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    Kanade Mixed Golem

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    11:03 PM
    Listen turbo virg im the fc leader of the biggest erp fc in Mateus and i mean the biggest i merely walk through the quicksands and get laid atleast 14 times by the time i walk to the inn. I have a harem of cat girls because they know im big shit.

    They say money doesnt buy happiness? HAH, try again buddy im happy living my ERP fantasys right now with my two concubine cat girls Kitty Mc Fuzzles & Jimothy Pinky and yeah i make them dry out my big dick hrothgar semen out of my big cock daily.

    Oh and before your small brain says i work at walmart Im actually the vice manager at my local target, so let me ask again. Who are you? Nothing. Thats right. Who am i? A Sex symbol in a final fantasy 14 erp realm. Nice try, think of something else VIRGIN.

    1638087195804.png
     
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  6. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    HP washing is a necessary evil in this game, and it's not even that big of an evil. The loudest proponents for making it easier simply haven't played long enough to realize how much of a non-factor it is in the grand scheme of things, but they will continue to complain from their myopic view of this game.
     
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  7. Kanade
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    Kanade Mixed Golem

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    11:03 PM
    Necessary how? And if its so much of a non-factor why are so many "veterans" against it being more accessible?

    Also moron Oradious, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results, stupidity like you is infinite.

    index.jpg
     
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  8. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Read my post again and summarize it for me because I do not think you understand what I'm saying.
     
  9. Kanade
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    Kanade Mixed Golem

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    Cat.png
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  10. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    Actual arguments against it are in all of the old threads, the entire old guard is just bored to death of seeing it for the hundredth time especially as nothing new ever gets said, the best you can really hope for is someone calling another person a turbo virg as that's good for a giggle.

    Actual arguments against it are that it's major balancing issue if the "~one year -> ~12k ranged hp" suddenly turns into "~one year -> 30k ranged hp", as it entirely kills any prospect of melee classes ever leaving the bottom tier(other than paladins) and the job of Dark Knight just ceases to exist overnight. Just arbitrarily deciding to cut costs to a third has massive balance implications for the entire game that only benefits all of the current strongest classes, while punishing old players who finished washing and all of the bad classes who can already become reasonably tanky in relatively few months. If you just don't want to wash, even if it's cheap, you're also going to just be making an unplayable character so in the end it really just enforces washing and mage meta on the server even more.
     
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  11. mard
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    mard Mixed Golem Retired Staff

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    Yes let's please make washing more than 3 times easier so we can make my DK and every other DK and cleave obsolete that much faster :love:

    And furthermore for those who finished washing their characters but didn't wash as hard (because they understood the time tradeoff for HP), let's punish them for having reset out their int at the expense of more expensive resets too! Silly them for having washed out before the resets got changed to 1k and settling for less HP.
     
  12. Kanade
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    Kanade Mixed Golem

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    11:03 PM
    Crab mentality is a metaphor for the behaviour of crabs which when caught and kept in a bucket would not allow any of the other crabs to escape. When any tried to escape, the rest pulled it down (shared joy in misery). Similar behaviour has been observed in humans, although in varied circumstances

    314161394406653965.png

    Sounds like a problem for the deadbeats on the balance team. Dragon? DRAGONDEEZNUTSONURFACE. Gottem.
     
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  13. UnknownCode
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    UnknownCode Nightshadow

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    As much as I agree that HP washing should get tweaked to an extent, getting laid 14 times is a lot there buddy.. health-wise you should get that checked.

    Also your meme involving a trolley doesn't really make sense because if the trolley did run over those people there should be visual proof that the trolley is the issue.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. xiaoyaoz
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    xiaoyaoz Balance Team Staff Member Balance Team

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    12:03 PM
    > Proposal to drop AP Reset price from 1,000 to 100 :roflmao:

    >> Proposal to drop AP Reset price from 100 to 10 :cool:

    >>> Proposal to drop AP Reset price from 10 to 1 :geek:

    HP washing topic solved :yay:
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 9
  15. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    very interesting. are you sure you're on the right server?
     
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  16. Edann
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    Edann Slimy Retired Staff

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    2:03 PM
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    Man your takes don't make much sense I'm afraid but this specific reply is some of the best I seen on forums so I like you now
     
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  17. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    Anyway, that's enough for AP reset topic #37

    Changing the prices of AP Resets won't do anything at all to solve the problem with HP washing, it only puts a massive band-ait over it. Sure, you will get your resets easier, but that just results in everyone having a 30k HP NL. The best approach instead is solving WHY people need to wash in first place.

    If 1,000 APR's happen then people will just ask in a few months to change it to 500.

    Apr's were already made much easier with events, multiple account voting, streak system, more Vote Cash in general, etc... Getting APR's was much harder years ago, but like I stated in #2 people always want it even easier

    The price of APR's won't be changing. And no, it won't be changed as a discount event either because that just encourages hoarding of Vote Cash until such an event happen.
     
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