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Remove middle shelves at Shaolin 5-6

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Hiimalex, May 29, 2020.

  1. Hiimalex
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    Hiimalex Slime

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    11:41 PM
    Hiimalex/Redapples
    I/L Arch Mage
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    Beaters
    Since the removal of the bottom right shelf at 5-6, many people have started using the middle shelf at the top platform for mules. If anything this allows for all the duo mage leechers and grinders to "afk train" even more so than before since the buffs from the mules are able to reach both mages on the left and right side of the shelf. At least with the bottom right shelf, one mage would have to move to the right side to rebuff themselves. But even the bottom shelf at the moment is still currently afk-able using an I/L mage post nerf. I suggest removing the safe spot in the middle shelves and further nerfing the bottom right one that way mages have to actually move to train and rebuff.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
    • Disagree Disagree x 6
  2. s0mething
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    s0mething Capt. Latanica

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    11:41 PM
    Can we just remove shaolin at this point?
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  3. echung379
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    echung379 Brown Teddy

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    I think the nerfs that the staff made to 5-6 are already quite a big nerf. And I'm not saying this for personal gain. I rarely go to 5-6 anymore.

    1) After the nerf, for bishops and F/P, you can't "AFK train" anymore because now you get hit regardless of where you stand. If you get hit too many times you can get knocked down the stairs. Contrast this to prior to the nerf, when you wouldn't get hit at all on the bottom right bookshelf, and on the bottom left side hits didn't matter because you wouldn't have to worry about falling off any stairs.
    2) They nerfed the monsters exp a bit already.
    3) You can't buff the left side of the map from the middle shelf, because the left mage usually stands further to the left, so you still have to walk over to get the buff. (admittedly not a big deal)
    4) It is easier for I/L since you can freeze monsters, but that's the advantage gained from being slightly weaker than F/P.
     
  4. OP
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    Hiimalex
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    Hiimalex Slime

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    I still see plenty of F/P and bishops training at 5-6, so I don't see the problem with either of them training there. You just have to simply reposition so that you don't fall off. And the EXP nerf to the mobs barely affected the total EPH that you get at 5-6. There wasn't even a huge nerf to shaolin to begin with. They just removed one shelving from the bottom right one and the EXP nerf as I said hardly affects the overall EPH.
     
  5. echung379
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    echung379 Brown Teddy

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    F/P and bishops do train at 5-6, but they can't just stand on the bottom left bookshelf anymore and hold a button. They get knocked around and have to reposition constantly. So you can't "AFK train" anymore.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Aerika
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    Aerika Slime

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    11:41 PM
    Bamukuhen
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    Speaking from personal experience (F/P), I have to stand closer to the stairs on either sides in order to efficiently hit all the monsters without overlapping with the other mage and/or missing monsters on the edge. Aside from having to reposition myself to make sure I don't fall off the stairs, I do have to teleport closer to the middle to get my buffs because they don't reach that far.

    I guess it can become somewhat of an "afk grinding" when you get into the mental zone and know when to tp to dodge the monster and know when they're about to spawn....and repeat that same key sequence 100+ times....but I don't think that's much different from when I constantly hold button + adjust position + buff when I boss on either my BM/DK/NL character (sorry for the super run-on sentence :confused:). I'm not complaining about the simplicity or anything, I think that's just the nature of these type of games that were made in 2003. Just my two-cents.

    I do agree that before the last nerf, it was too broken where one mage just had to hold a button on the bookshelf, didn't have to use HP pots, and never had to look at the screen, but it's not like that anymore (Nice work ML Team :yay:). Just nerf the exp more if it's still giving an insane amount of exp.

    Out of curiosity, what's the average eph and average lvl to give that eph at 5-6 now anyways? If it's broken like old-duku in the sense where you can be lvl 130 and give insane leech with zero int equips then maybe it needs a change. Otherwise, from my understanding, you need a good chunk of lvls + maxed ult + above average int equips to be able to even have a mixture of 3-4 hits to kill them at lvl 160, which aren't cheap at all esp. for first-time, mage-main players (hi new friends if you're reading this! :shamemb:).

    Note: I don't really main a mage, I just use my f/p every now and then to leech my 216 base int NL whenever I'm not lazy/have the time :hungry:.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. ccao08
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    ccao08 Snail

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    I agree with you.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. Haku
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    Haku Dark Stone Golem

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    11:41 PM
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    I'm not choosing a side on whether 5-6 deserves another nerf, but I sense some bias when it comes to 5-6. Those that have reaped enough benefits of duo mage set up in 5-6 to lv. 200 wants the map nerfed probably because they don't want others to get the same treatment they did back then. I see lv 200s that abused these shelves complaining about it when I didn't see these complaints back when they still had some work to do.
     
    • Agree Agree x 12
  9. boost3rr
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    boost3rr Slime

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    11:41 PM
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    how bout hit mage ults with a cooldown? so they have time to contemplate about why they hadn't made an nl instead, on the middle shelf.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  10. Fishy
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    Fishy Skelegon Retired Staff

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    11:41 PM
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    OR make it so all the mules have to go top right shelf, so the other mage has to walk to the right lol? We all complained about it. You have to agree how braindead broken this shit is even with the nerf. Please dont act like us lvl 200s dont care.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  11. OP
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    Hiimalex
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    Hiimalex Slime

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    I can tell you that I did reap the benefits of shaolin 5-6 to get to 200, but it wasn't from afk duo mage grinding either. I solo'd the map while leeching my attacker along with a combination of petris leech selling.It was as broken back then as it is now, and the EXP nerf to the mobs hardly affected the overall EXP gain from 5-6. If you think I'm trying to take advantage of the system by trying to get 5-6 changed just because I hit 200, you must not trust the community very much. As Fishy said, you have to agree that 5-6 is pretty broken in terms of the amount of effort required to the enormous EXP gain.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  12. -ovv
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    -ovv Zakum

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    What's even more laughable is that Shaolin is still considered end game content.
     
  13. asdfjkliang
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    asdfjkliang Selkie Jr.

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    just remove shaolin out of the game at this point lol
     
  14. Haku
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    Haku Dark Stone Golem

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    Yeah I definitely agree that it was and still is a pretty broken spot to power level.
    I would like to apologize for assumptions and my no effort post.

    So is the issue here that 5-6 still requires little to no movement/effort for a lot of exp or is the exp just OP here? Removing the middle shelves is not going to solve this issue because there's a top right shelf where they can keep their mules as well for a little more effort. After 125, the EPM from Petris/Skeles to Shaolin 5-6 is significantly much higher.
     
  15. echung379
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    echung379 Brown Teddy

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    I am going to present some leech numbers, interpret them as you will.

    1. Shaolin 5-6 gives about 36-42m EPH split with 2 mages attacking
    2. Petris (1hit) gives about 26-30m EPH (for level 125+ leecher) with 1 mage attacking

    So if Shaolin 5-6 gives about ~40% more exp but requires 2 mages, which is 100% more of a mage (i.e. 2 mages instead of 1), then why is 5-6 considered enormous amounts of EXP gain?

    Put another way, my mage could train at Shaolin 5-6 with another mage for 1 hour and gain 40m leech EXP on my attacker. But this requires 2 hours of total leech time (1 hour per mage). Or, alternatively, me and the other mage could each take turns leeching our attackers at Petris for 1 hour each (2 hours total) and gain 56m EXP. So on a per minute/per mage basis, 5-6 is actually less exp.

    If you nerf 5-6 exp gain, then why would anyone go there over petris, when it requires 2 mages spending double the amount of pots? And shouldn't 5-6 be giving more exp, as it's a higher level requirement 125+ than petris/skeles 105+? It's like saying petris is broken because it gives more exp than ulu 2.

    In terms of actually training as a mage, I'm not as familiar with the exact numbers. However, in my personal experience training at both petris and 5-6, I'm pretty sure that 5-6 doesn't give me 2x as much exp as Petris. Maybe about 1.5-1.8x. And that seems reasonable because you're training with a party (i.e. another mage) rather than alone at skele/petri. It's the same reason why mp3 is better exp with a party than GS2 is alone. As it should be imo.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. redblueblur
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    redblueblur Mr. Anchor

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    3:41 PM
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    How is this afk? bruh u contradicted urself... also stopp i saw ur dirty chat at 5-6 afew days ago with ur 18x ice buddy. let's stop entertaining trolls, tyvm. pce
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Great Work Great Work x 2
  17. cakesogood
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    cakesogood Windraider

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    3:41 PM
    Demun, kokushibo
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    How is it braindead broken? Pre Nerf it used to be u can AFK mage ult without even looking at the screen with the safe spots. Now u have to reposition yourself if not mobs will hit you off the platform+ an Exp nerf.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  18. Jean Justen
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    Jean Justen Mushmom

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    Im all for removing the Middle shelfs in 7F for ITEMS, so we can loot the meso from wooden fish easily :yay:
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  19. Pina
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    Pina Stone Golem

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    2:41 AM
    PodoSoju - Gahm - Only81
    F/P Mage
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    Can we also remove the GS2 (Ghost Ship 2) stair platform so clerics cannot AFK heal train, it takes the challenge out of actually training and the effort other classes put to train there.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3

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