Remove Pickpocket's 200 Meso Cap

Assasinate looks like the skill u cant change so It seems It Will be like it will stay that way.

 

They changed this in KMS and GMS not sure about the others though.

I think its a bug that interacts with it because all attacks should drop mesos, even a regular attack should drop mesos if Pick Pocket is being used.

 

So in addition to shadowers excelling at grinding (shads can get 80-105m eph at 7F), you’re suggesting to buff their ability for meso farming as well? Full disclosure: I actually don't how much shads make with pick pocket.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't staff trying to slow down meso generation in an attempt to control the economy and not let things get too overly inflated?

 

Yes, make them better than mages lol

In all seriousness, pickpocket at max level has a 60% proc chance every time you hit. Assuming you can hit 20k+ per hit of boomerang step, thats 2 60% chances to drop 200 meso, averaging out to some 960 meso per boomerang step assuming you hit all 4 targets. Someone should actually test this though and see if this is actually significant.

I don't know if the staff are or not, but there are plenty of other methods of generating meso that would take precedent over Shads pickpocket if they were to do so.

Pickpocket is really only used to gain that extra bit of meso as the damage output for ME is not worth it. Its basically a worse and more inconsistent meso up

 

With having just started up a bandit recently im all for this.

Take my support!

 

I'll test this when i'm home, but for what its worth being stuck in my 7f prison home eyeballing it all i can definitely say that pickpocket will increase meso generation by atleast 20%. these bois tanky.

 

Funny, I did recently interview some Shadowers on why they would use Pickpocket even though most wouldn't pick up the Mesos or for some bizarre reason actually use Meso Explosion at that level.

The results I got were:
-Force of habit.
-Meso generation for some.
-Fuels Meso Guard.

These are all anecdotal, so consider that first.

If there was no cap on Pickpocket, could it rival their counterpart in Meso Up? Could Assassinate's crazy damage make other Meso-relate'd Skills a bit too effective? There's lots of other potential effects a capless Pickpocket might have that I'd like to explore first. Otherwise, on first impression I like the sound of this idea's change.

 

Regardless of cap or not, pickpocket outperforming meso up depends on the amount of meso the mobs drop and whether you can 1-hit them or not. Meso up is a guarenteed 50% increase for meso dropped. Not a lot of mobs drop 1000+ meso. From what I've seen, the range of 600-1000 is a pretty decent estimate for places worth grinding/money making. That's an average of an extra 400 meso per drop with meso up. Assuming you can kill these mobs in 1 hit with bstep and you get the pickpocket proc chance for both hits, it would also drop an extra 400 meso. The difference is that meso up is dependent on the mob dropping meso while pickpocket relies on the skills percent chance. Plus pickpocket requires you to pick up extra drops rather than a single meso bag. With all these factors, my initial statement about pickpocket being worse isn't necessarily true, but rather more inconsistent and tedious. Removing the cap won't really benefit shads unless they had end-game equips/absurd damage as the forumla for pickpocket is damage/100. To benefit from the cap removal is to do 20k+ per hit, which is doable for anybody a high enough level, but hitting 30k-40k without attack pots requires some ridiculously good equips.

Assassinate at a high enough level with hit over 20k, but that's hitting 4-5 times in comparison to bstep hitting a max of 8 times with 4 mobs. Unless you're in a bossing situation, bstep will drop more mesos on average. Nate damage doesn't get absurd unless you charge it (waiting 8 seconds in dark sight), where you then have the potential to hit 199k per hit, which is 2k meso if pickpocket procs. You'll rarely come across a situation where charged nate benefits you, so the cap removal won't make a big difference as you'll still make more meso if you just use uncharged nate.

 

The real big brain play is to make a meso up mule and use both skills. Imagine if meso up applied to pickpocket meso lol

 

For me, its definitely the three you pointed out + helps me levelup via meso explosion when i've got my INT gear on.

Perhaps if meso generation issues were indeed a huge concern, it would assumingly be better off to just make the skill have a reduced probability of processing, and scale capped to a % of your damage.

Assuming the above formula is true,

Assumptions:
1. A solo 'modest shad' with each bstep hit dealing ~15k damage
2. 100% guaranteed pickpocketing picks
3. your most optimal movement always hitting 4 targets per Boomerang step.
4. Farming at 7F
5. Your pet loots everything so you dont waste time looting
6. six silver giants at 225,000 hp each, two golden giants at 270,000 hp each, and nine wooden fish at 102,000 hp each
7. 3.75 (four hits) to kill one silver giant, 4.5 (five hits) to kill one golden giant, 1.7 (two hits) to kill one wooden fish
8. Take 3 minutes (180 seconds) to clear a wave

Calculations:

15,000 damage / 100 = 150 meso drop per hit

150 meso drop per hit * (11 total hits for mobs in the map * 17 total mobs in the map) = 28,050 pickpocket mesos per wave.

3600 seconds in an hour / 180 seconds = 20 waves per hour.

28,050 * 20 = 561,000 additional mesos per hour.

tl;dr. so a ~15k damage shadower would make an extra 561,000 mesos per hour being sneaky and pickpocketing mobs and grinding at 7f under perfect conditions.

tbh this sounds about right. cause i know i make peanuts in my prison home.

 

While I got no proof of the formula, the meso is definitely just the damage divided by 100 (or *0.01) as I get 146 meso if I deal 14.6k damage or any amount of numbers applicable. Hitting something like 22k results in only 200 meso, as the cap.

With that said those are some crazy perfect conditions so I'm guessing it would realistically yield something like half that amount (if that)?

Idk about others, but I never bother picking things up in 7F because the shelf platforms are just too annoying to bother with. Even with a pet, it sometimes refuses to reach for some of the shelves, so I just accept that I won't pick up most of the drops. It doesn't feel worth it to pick up all that mesos when you're getting knocked around (tfw you don't have max shifter) and losing eph as well as throwing off the spawns with your partner.

 

I always thought of Pickpocket to be one of the lowkey broken skills especially being in a shad's kit even with the 200 cap.

We have -

1. High avoid
2. 40% Shifter
3. Meso Guard
4. Pickpocket

Which means we pretty much gain alot more than we pay for pots.

From living at 7F I would say I'd gain around ~2m/hr minimum from straight PP mesos, around 2-3m split between party members in CWKPQ and I would assume around 3m~4m split in HT (Never tried in HT, scared of DCing ).
Without PP I assume 7F would be around 1m/hr?
Seeing how 7F is the end-game grinding spot and we can hit everything with ease it seems abit bonkers.

Also I think apples would pay for themselves. Perma apple .

This is more for the fixed 7F but for looting its efficient to have at least 1 pet with the Kenta quest and one without. The one with it can jump to the higher shelf and the one without jumps to the lower shelf. I had 2 with Kenta and 1 without.

Currently they're kinda doodoo with the broken map.

 

great buff. Nice utility for a weaker class in terms of damage . But I suggest we take it a step further. And give Shadowers the ability to steal HT splits and Mesos from players.

 

can we take this one step further and also make pickpocket work with meso up so I can go 1 hit bstep ulu2 farm on my shadower and finally escape poverty

 

Lol I dont know why u guys disagree, I didnt said that It shouldnt I said that assasinate seems a hard skill to modify. They got It to do more hits but they couldnt make the firts hits crit on se and I think a lot of things cant be changed like the charge time to full damage of removing the need to use dark sight o.o So like Bucc's transform seems like a skill that is hard to change haha

 

Wait, people actually think we make loads of mesos at 7F? I at level 133 doing 14k - 19k damage per line barely break even (not even including pot cost technically I’m in the negative per grind session) granted I don’t go out my way to pick up mesos (it’s reeaalllyy annoying) I just let my pet do the work.

I personally don’t think removing the cap will make shads broken in terms of Meso farming, maybe I will actually make mesos when grinding which shouldn’t be a problem.

For some reason I can’t remember but if you hit for example a snail with 20k damage, do you still get 200 mesos?, if so then maybe that could be a problem (or maybe not)

my personal view is pickpocket is barely useful for most late game grinding since it just get soaked up by Meso guard anyway. Maybe that was the intention, I dunno.
I think at least increasing the cap maybe to 300 would be at most a nice LITTLE boost to shad’s Meso efficiency (granted we have a lot of skills to prevent using pots)

 

I think the difficulty with changing assassinate mainly lies in it being unaffected by SE. They rebalanced nate to not only do 4 hits instead of 3, but they also decreased the full charge time from 10 to 8 seconds, so they are definitely capable of at least some modification. But why would you remove the need for dark sight entirely? (kinda takes away from the skill tbh)

Pickpocket drops only depend on how much damage you do, so hitting a snail with 20k will drop 200 meso, though I'm not sure how that really poses a problem. If you're hitting that much damage, you benefit from going to higher level mobs that drop more meso. I mean I guess you save up on meso guard since you're not getting hit, but you definitely won't net more for going to really low lvl mobs.

There are plenty of skills that become obsolete by 4th job, or are just obsolete in general so pickpocket wouldn't be exempt from that. Even still, I think pickpocket is plenty useful in 4th job, even if it only break even with meso guard. Utilizing pickpocket well will result in some gain of meso, just not as drastic as what others might think.

 

I dunno, it seems ok as is. I always have pickpocket on in HT and over a 80 minute run where I'm cleaving 4 parts for over half of that time, my 5 party members reporting looting around 200k of meso (I usually see a net gain of about 50k)

But I can see a point to be made that improving pickpocket droprates will help further solidify Shadowers as the best cleave class for HT because those meso loots could certainly buffer splits from really dry runs.