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Return of Gachapon to Cash Shop

Discussion in 'Rejected' started by pulluponyou, Aug 2, 2019.

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  1. pulluponyou
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    pulluponyou Blue Snail

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    Try to make this as brief and clear as possible in order of importance

    1) Nostalgia / Game Progression - pre big bang this was a way for people to earn meso. Now, it's extremely tough for new players to gear up, taking away gach makes the game too grindy -- most people who play this are in their 20's +, people don't want to spend that many hours for minor progression. Gachapon in pre big bang GMS was an extremely fun activity to do (still is in current GMS) but has been taken away. I was grinding for 2 hours and only found 1 gachapon ticket.

    2) Player count is taking a hit. Legends was at it's prime 2 years ago, everything was proper at that time period. Might be inflated due to the fact people are playing on multiple clients. You see the same people in free market / other areas. PQ's are dead, 2 years ago, you had to wait to go into a KPQ / LPQ. LMPQ was packed, also completely dead.

    3) Market affected -- I've been searching items that should be popular in the free market multiple times, I searched for Pink Adventurer Cape (popular item from gach) and at peak player count with almost all of FM filled with stores -- a grand total of 3 pink adventurer capes. I had to sell my 16 int bath robe (valued at 70-80M) for 50M because of the drought of buyers.

    Tbh, I am not that terribly affected by it because I earned a good amount of mesos before this change but I don't like the fact that the player count is low and I feel like it's because this game is too hard / time consuming for the casual players to come into an enjoy.

    I am extremely thankful for the staff of Legends of bringing back old school MapleStory and letting me relive my childhood. This wasn't a post to bash but maybe bring some insight.

    Thank you!
     
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  2. OP
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    pulluponyou
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    pulluponyou Blue Snail

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    4) NX serves no purpose. You can acquire most cosmetics in a matter of 2 weeks so what will you do after that with the NX? Most people don't HP wash because they can't afford INT gear as it is. People used to save NX for gach tickets, that was it's primary goal (under that it was HP washing).
     
  3. Selquin
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    Selquin Chronos

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    Thats a good one :laugh:
     
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  4. Annolis
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    Annolis Wolfspider

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    I still use NX for Slots, Owls, Safety Charms, and Smegas. So, it does serve a purpose. Not having a Vote2Win aspect makes the game more satisfying. Two years ago, I believe I was taking my 12 chars through KPQ/LPQ, and I would generally take them through 2 at a time - so I'm sure that helped out with people not having to wait for a full compliment of members to begin the PQ. Also, two years ago, MapleRoyals had undergone a DDOS attack and MapleLegends inherited a temporary spike in the population. I think we've been hovering around 500 people online for quite some time now. I know it's difficult to get a party some times because the population may be mostly higher level characters (currently mine are all willing to MPQ, but people hate that PQ because of the puzzle stage - people say it's worse than LPQ's puzzle stage), so the PQs are generally active or inactive depending on the make-up of the current population. It would be awesome if we had a larger population, but I don't think there's anything that can necessarily be done about that.

    I'm not sure what you mean by a "casual-player." I envision a casual player as someone who isn't worried about getting INT gear or a PAC; they're just playing to enjoy the game and aren't focused on any particular goal beyond enjoyment of the game. The more focused players are going to want these things and will devote a lot more time to them. So, is this really a problem with the Gachapon System, or (and I don't mean to be rude, but I have to ask) is this just a patience issue?
     
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  5. MrPresident
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    MrPresident Orange Mushroom

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    I actually like that gachapon are mob drops now but I will say that they feel completely unrewarding. I get complete garbage way too often. Useless 10% scrolls, dried squid, takoyaki, or level 10-30 equipment. I know there has to be a balance between garbage and good rewards but it feels way out balanced towards garbage imo and especially so since they are only mob drops now. Also pls make sky ski and other gach exclusive items available outside of gach
     
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  6. Dvah
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    Dvah Dark Stone Golem

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    or increase the drop rate of the gachapons :)
     
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  7. echung379
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    echung379 Slime

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    I personally applaud the move from a NX gach system to a mob drop gach system. I had friends who would literally not play for months and accumulate hundreds of gach tickets through voting and get good items, which was dumb, because they were getting rewards while not playing.

    I do think having slightly higher rates for ws/cs would be nice though because they are currently at/near all time high prices (ws is selling for 145-150m and chaos is like 125-135m). I do understand that perfecting an end game weapon and scrolling a high att pac shouldn't be easy, but 150m is almost 3x what ws used to be in late 2017. And it feels harder to make mesos now because leech prices are down.

    However, i'm sure staff have multiple continuing discussions about gacha rates so I trust their judgment
     
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  8. NSFW
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    NSFW Skelegon

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    this isn't a spoonfeed server
     
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  9. Sugarplum
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    Sugarplum Mano

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    I like that Gach tickets have been removed. I do wish the drop rate was better
     
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  10. Siao
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    Siao Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Well I'm not sure if you did a search regarding Gachapon and the reason why we decided to remove it all together from the cashshop, I'll link you up anyways and you can read them. >>> clickbait <<<

    And because we removed Gacha from cashshop, it led to us implementing and removing the vote abuse rule all together. Yay no more Vote2Win! Kimmy explained right here, feel free to read it as well.

    Sure enough, a few people before yourself voiced and lashed out really badly on why we should bring it back, and again it was rejected for the same reason. Not gonna be linking the post, if you're curious our search function is pretty reliable :whistling: In summary, we want players to actually play the game to earn Gacha through mob drops and eliminate Vote2Win (voting for months without playing and expecting to hit a jackpot via Gacha). Also, I didn't want to burst your bubble but pretty much majority of the people spend most of their nx cash for washing...... yah.
     
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  11. IcedWeather
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    IcedWeather Red Snail

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    Just returned to MapleLegends after two long years, and God, has everything changed for the worse.
    It's understandable that the development team has decided to remove Cash Gachapon because of the recent change in GTOP100's voting rules (since obviously, leaving the system as it is will lead to an influx of gach items - affecting gameplay balance badly), but the issue is that there is nothing to satisfactorily substantiate the procurement of gacha / rare items. Everything turns into a senseless grind as I have to kill mobs for two to three hours only to get a shitty Gacha item due to the poor rates here. At this moment, I have to pray that I get a "gacha item" (by luck, thanks to the poor spawn rates) and get a decent item at least to be sold in the FM (which is by luck again). Simply telling people to "suck it up" and "play the game" is stupid and ignorant, because MapleStory isn't just about killing monsters - rather the community and socialization here.

    The only solution to this is to at least improve the gachapon ticket drop rates, so that if someone bothered to grind monsters down he would still get something equivalent to what they used to get if they decided to spend 5K NX cash on gacha.

    I am starting to be doubtful that the removal of Cash Gachapon was purely because of GTOP100's recent voting rule changes, but rather a motive to start correcting MapleLegends' economy in your vision to make it more "fair". You guys have removed Gacha from the Cash Shop to proclaim the removal of Vote2Win forever, but you left HP washing (which mind you, is not even a relevant core to MapleStory back then as compared to Gachapon since it involved more real cash transactions and HP washing was not practised by all in 2008) which is essentially a part of Vote2Win. If you wanted to remove Vote2Win so much, why not just remove AP resets altogether? That way, you can finally say that vote abuse and Vote2Win is finally eradicated, although, the servers will automatically fall in rankings since people no longer see any incentive to vote for NX cash.

    Here's the catch here: As long as you want to provide an incentive for people to vote for your servers - you are always going to get people who want to exploit the system for their personal advantage. It's human nature, nothing personal here.
    If your intentions are to make sure that people will "actually play the game to earn Gacha through mob drops", then you guys have utterly failed. Leeching services are available in FM (provided you have the meso to pay for it), and no one is really bothered to grind all the way just to catch some Gacha coupons that give out shitty items. Like I said previously, if you want to make mob Gachapon to be a thing, make it common such that it is equivalent to what I could have purchased previously with Gachapon tickets. At least you will even the chance of good and bad items here by giving everyone equal chances at that thing.

    Two years ago when MapleRoyals got their "new source hype" problem, this server received most of the player-base from them and it created some vibrant moments for everyone in here. However, if your intentions is to make the game more grindier so as to "achieve MapleStory in 2008", then there is no way any server is going to achieve that - MapleStory 2008 was a moment for all of us here, and moments like this cannot be relived again.

    Also, no one is spending most of their NX cash for HP washing because it takes too long (~1 year) to fully unlock your character's potential. Nobody has got the time to commit to such a thing, not to mention that you also have to purchase INT gears as well (which jolly, where do you get mesos from now?)

    Now, when I stroll along FM and other popular PQ places, it is full of mules and AFK players. The place is no longer as vibrant as it used to be, and new players are even turned off by the fact that they can never reach the level of those who played before them. Heck, I even had to sell prized equipment at a discount not because there is an influx in supply, but rather because no one is buying it. It is difficult for them to acquire mesos and gear now, and trust me that if this trend keeps going on, we will see new and old players alike leaving altogether due to the lack of social activity within the server.
     
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  12. Bronze
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    Bronze Game Moderator Staff Member Game Moderator Graphics Designer

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    Not sure what you mean here though, I've never gotten anything good from NX gacha.

    Also not sure what you mean here, have you tried asking around or is this based off personal assumptions?
     
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  13. IcedWeather
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    IcedWeather Red Snail

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    Basically increase the drop rate of both classes of Gachapon coupons, so that when people do play Gachapon, they will get something similar to that when people simply just spent their daily votecash on Gachapon.

    Also, Gachapon is all luck. Not everyone is destined to get something good from it, but everyone just like to play their chances here. The removal of Cash Gachapon completely simply kills both the economy and motivation to play this game.

    Furthermore, just to add on, putting Cash Gachapon back can be beneficial since it actually gives a mean for newcomers to obtain a decent meso revenue to get good gear. With that gone, newcomers won't be able to purchase anything good.
     
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  14. Bronze
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    Bronze Game Moderator Staff Member Game Moderator Graphics Designer

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    I feel like everything you've written here thus far just based on your personal assumptions and not actually having to experience what it is to play without NX gacha. Like you've mentioned, you've been gone for 2 years, and you might feel that things are worse for you than it was back then, but you're forgetting the rest of the player base that still continue to play this game.

    Give the game a chance before attacking it like that. We would never make a decision that would be detrimental to us in the long run.
     
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  15. IcedWeather
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    IcedWeather Red Snail

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    I do speak from my own personal point of view, of course I don't claim to be representing the entire community here since like you said, I have been gone for two years. But I was here when MapleLegends was at its prime thanks to the MapleRoyals' "new source hype" problem and I have enjoyed my time back then thanks to the people.

    But now when I returned? PQ sites are nearly barren, there isn't anything interesting going on in FM, and player count didn't improve much as compared to two years ago. I do apologize if my critic seem harsh to you here, but I feel that it is absurd to simply say that "Vote2Win" is officially gone when clearly, HP washing and other factors are still relevant here. All you've simply done is to remove the source for common folk to actually thrive in the game.
     
  16. Annolis
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    Annolis Wolfspider

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    If I grind for two to three hours, I get about 5 Gach tickets, so I can't corroborate your experience. As one MapleTip says, "Bad luck is not a bug."

    Agreed, she is being a bit rude here.

    There does appear to be a call for increased drop rates. I can't say I've been upset with the rates so far, but I am also aware that I'm not the average player. Letting your voice be known on this issue does help the admins made future decisions.

    I honestly believe your doubts here are misplaced.

    This may be true for casual players just sojourning through, but there are a lot of players who have played for over a year (I've been playing almost since the server first went online). Casual players shouldn't be interested in getting the higher and rarer gear, though. Like someone pointed out above, this isn't a x20 spoon-fed server. This is as GMS as possible with the fewest flaws leftover.

    The dynamics of the culture, player-base, and economy of any server will be in flux. I've noticed a spike in new players, so the high level gear isn't going to be in as high a demand for a while. I suggest patience.
     
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  17. Bronze
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    Bronze Game Moderator Staff Member Game Moderator Graphics Designer

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    There are a lot of ways to actually thrive in the game, removing NX gacha would not cripple your meso inflow. Don't worry about your harsh critic, we're fully aware that the player count wasn't as high as it was compared to two years ago. However, you're forgetting that 2 years ago, we had a huge influx of players, and like with most things, people come and go. Yeah, perhaps we're not doing a good job with massive player retention, but I'm sure that the players that decided to stay feel otherwise. That being said, HP washing seems to do a better job at player retention than NX gacha. This is not just based on my personal opinion, and anyone is free to like this post if they agree with me.
     
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  18. Precel
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    Precel Game Moderator Staff Member Game Moderator

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    Actually, to my understanding, gachapon change was not due to a change on GTOP's rules as they already allowed multi-voting.

    I think effect of gachapon removal is very exaggerated here. You can't compare player count 2 years prior to the change vs. right after gachapon change. Has anyone seen player count few weeks before/after gachapon change? It was indifferent. Plus, we are actually growing player base at the moment. Gachapon change had no effect on the player count and using the number 2 years ago is a biased argument.

    As for getting rid of vote2win, removing AP reset isn't as simple as removing gachapon. Mesos are temporary and we have meso sinks, so we can take out gachapon from cash shop and it will not leave a difference in a long term. HP is permanent. If we just take it out, it's just giving an abnormal advantage to older players that new players cannot reach no matter how much they try. I think it's a bit silly to say "bring back gacha because there is still vote2win". No, we may not be able to take out vote2win completely, but we're still going to get rid of it as much as possible.

    Drop chance or reward pool is a fair suggestion and should be looked at based on market rates.

    Edit: also, nx gacha is the least of worry for new players. They are worried about guides, guild, pet, pet equips, FM shop, inventory slots... Not blue tickets that give you squid. Some even prefer hunting gachapon as it has no level requirement as of now compared to lvl 50 limit before. Gachapon has been a thing of nx hoarders in my opinion, so I don't see the new player argument fitting.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2019
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  19. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Selkie Jr.

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    It would be an awful idea to bring back cash gacha now. I have about 900k NX across all of my accounts. This is game cash that's been brought into the game from being able to vote multiple times, a principle that in the past would have given me a ban. This is an experience that new players wouldn't be able to take part in, because in directly correlating game cash with mesos in game would have to bring back the voting rules once again(Along with the time spent for moderation and detective work in the system). Unless we do want to allow people to vote 10+ times a day in order to spend it on gachapon tickets. So what we'd have are a ton of old players with large amounts of NX and no way for newer players to compete with them.

    It would also mean that I wouldn't be able to multivote anymore in an attempt to save for washing on another account. It would actively make washing harder, gear isn't that difficult to get and a person doesn't need a lot, unless they're mistaken in understanding how much they need. The biggest gate to washing is time. Bringing back vote gacha would actively add to the time it takes to wash, in slowing down the pace at which NX is obtained and by offering other options to use with the NX, increasing the value of the resets.

    Another aspect to think about is how most of the items mainly acquired through the gachapon would immediately crash once people can use their large stacks of NX on gacha once again. Just look at the massive drops in the prices of 30% weapon scrolls after CWKPQ came out. Many of them lost close to 50% of their value because so many of them came into the game. Many of what's acquired through gachapon are also relatively low volume traded items, and they keep their value because of their rarity and potential to merch them.

    This isn't meant to be an easy server. In the current state there is a good balance between play being rewarding and being challenging. Progress loses all meaning if people are spoonfed their rewards through bad gameplay like voting for gachapon tickets. Voting for AP resets isn't perfect, but I have yet to hear any other solutions that won't completely break the server. At this point it's probably a bad idea to rework the system without a server wipe.

    The server isn't dead or dying. PQs aren't dead either. It doesn't feel that way whatsoever as someone who's been around for years. I've been making my way back up on a new character and there are always new people to meet and talk to, and there's only been minimal trouble trying to find PQs.

    Not even to mention the fact that common gacha tickets were buffed, if they were reverted it would be mostly garbage again. I think I'd rather have 3 common tickets now vs. having the daily 5 from vote gacha. 3 gacha tickets aren't difficult to get from playing daily.

    If you need money just get married to someone or on an alt. APQ is level 50+ and generally I get an apple every other run. Or grind at Master Chronos, Drakes, or Nightghosts. They're mobs that can be killed around 45-70 and they drop some expensive scrolls. It's not impossible to make money. It just takes some work.
     
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  20. Oradious
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    Oradious Slime

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    I don't think anyone logs into the game with the mentality/thinking of "Oh, today I'm going to grind for X hours and try to get Y amount of gacha tickets". If that's the case, everyone would be bringing their mages to the most spawn-heavy map and spamming their ults. So yea, the purpose of grinding isn't to just 'catch some Gacha coupons'.

    If no one is buying it, then it simply isn't prized or worth the mesos. Take for example, the 18 dex bowman shoes that has been circulating for months now. Yea sure, the yellow name and 18 dex looks attractive, but why is no one buying it? Simply because it's not worth the money, and a sock that is at least 3 attack gives more range than 18 dex.

    Another example is the occasional +5 or +6 yellow-named Elemental Staff that you see. Again, it looks nice, gives high magic attack, but no one is buying it. Why? Because 95% of the server don't play lUk mAgEs, and most of the remaining 5% probably have no intention to grind to that level to use that weapon.

    Wrong. There are alternative ways for newcomers to earn money. Adding on to what Alyosha said, newcomers could also do scroll quests to earn mesos. You can search around the forums, or go watch RedReboot's guide on YouTube. Although the prices aren't updated, the scrolls that are mentioned in the guides are still worth quite a lot of money for newcomers.

    Is that so? Then kindly explain the current influx of 200 base INT ranged characters that people have been making recently, or even those that have 9k base HP. Hardcore INT gear isn't a necessity. Some people choose to add base INT to compensate for the minuscule value of INTs that their equips give, some borrow equips. If you have issues getting mesos, do refer to what I just said above. If one still has issue getting mesos and decides to complain about it, then they are just an inefficient pepega who doesn't know how to play the game.
     
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