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Selling of training maps

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Gappi, Aug 4, 2017.

Have you ever bought a map?

  1. Yes

    11 vote(s)
    10.2%
  2. No

    97 vote(s)
    89.8%
  1. Gappi
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    Gappi Slime

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    Jun 26, 2017
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    11:08 AM
    Smashardt
    Dragon Knight
    115
    Raisenhell
    I have noticed that from time to time people are trying to sell slots at the most popular training maps, like GS2 and Skelegons, for millions of mesos.

    While its perfectly fine for people to find new and creative ways of making mesos (except scamming of course but this is another topic), I really have a problem with the whole idea of selling maps.
    In my eyes this is basically extortion, because they are deliberately trying to block other people's effective advancement in unless they get paid a significant amount of cash.
    I also think that this is an abuse of the whole @mapowner system, the intended function of which is to keep people from squabbling over maps.

    Have you ever sold a map or bought one?
    Will the staff actively enforce mapmerching since it is tied to map ownership?
    What would happen if you just ignored them and train there anyway?
    Please share your thoughts on this!
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  2. Qanu
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    Qanu Stone Golem

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    May 16, 2016
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    Netherlands, EU
    11:08 AM
    HammerSlam
    White Knight
    100
    GodDuckness
    Although I agree on the mapowner abuse, I do say that there are other ways of gaining significant amount of exp. Pq, quests and other training maps (FoG as example) can do also great to level although not as good. Though higher lvl maps might be an issue due to lack of decent training maps I think. This also enforces more party play I guess
     
  3. Chew
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    Chew Headless Horseman

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    Lets find out if this is even an issue?

    Make a poll that asks, "Have you ever bought a map?", with "Yes" and "No" as options.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. OP
    OP
    Gappi
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    Gappi Slime

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    Smashardt
    Dragon Knight
    115
    Raisenhell
    Yeah, I didn't want to imply that those maps are the only way of getting good EXP, I agree that that you can easily level up without ever going to the popular training spots.
    It may not be quite as effective but in my opinion it is more fun to switch it up between questing/grinding/PQ.


    Good idea, poll added.
    I personally doubt that people are paying that often, but the S>thismap smegas keep coming in.
    Maybe just people testing out if they can really make money that way...
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2017
  5. Else
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    Else Mixed Golem

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    i think its legit to sell maps, as i said in a thread like this befor.

    imo its as selling fm spots. its not like some1 blocked the whole FM and u cant play a shop, its just that if u want more people to see your shop, u might have to pay a price for it.

    taking it back for maps, if some1 want to train efficiently, he might have to buy a map for that. its not like the person selling is taking all the maps in all the maple world.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  6. Gang
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    Gang Timer

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    11:08 AM
    Gang
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    Map-selling should not be allowed. I've already seen people camping and hunting maps so they can sell them after.

    You might think it's not too bad and you can just look for a different map to train. But should you be forced to train less efficient because people are camping and selling maps? Also, think about the extreme cases that can happen if you allow people to do this.

    Imagine one guy logging multiple characters and camping multiple channels to sell maps. He can make a business of just that.
    Now imagine multiple people doing that. You're never training in that map again without paying.
    People will go to the alternative (example: gs5). Now other people will camp and sell that as well.

    It hasn't gotten to that point yet. Let's make sure it won't in the future.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Like Like x 4
  7. Else
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    Else Mixed Golem

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    what's the difference in that and in fm stores? people set up mules to sell stores, and people sometimes have to go for ch3 to get a spot. a less efficient spot.

    They can pay for those spots, as u can pay for those maps.
     
  8. OP
    OP
    Gappi
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    Gappi Slime

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    Smashardt
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    Raisenhell
    One reason this is bugging me so much is that it reminds me of the current situation regarding bossing.
    I have found it to be incredibly to find area bosses (like Faust, King Clang, etc...) in order to do their respectivy quests.
    There always seems to be someone with a timer on them so they get killed immediately after they spawn on all channels.
    If you want to take down even a single one you have to camp the map for hours...

    I have to say thought that this is something that I accept, mostly because the people slaughtering all those bosses are in my experience friendly and helpful so i do not begrudge them their kills.
    Most of the time as soon as they notice you waiting for a boss they let you have that one kill you need and may even help you with it.

    I just hope deliberate map blocking never gets to the point where it is almost imossible to enjoy a certain aspect of the game, be it bossing or optimized grinding.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Gang
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    Gang Timer

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    Gang
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    Not that I'm a big fan of spot selling in FM, but I wouldn't compare the 2. You are usually paying for an fm1 spot in order to sell easier and perhaps with higher prices.
    And you will keep that spot for 24 hours, + you can also refresh it.

    Let's say I have 3 blocks of 30 minutes to play in one afternoon. I'd have to pay every time I wanted to train for such a short period of time. Not really comparable to an FM spot.

    There's a reason that we have 2x exp instead of 4 hour cards. Let's not force people to grind for long periods to stay efficient in terms of mesos / nx.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. OP
    OP
    Gappi
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    Gappi Slime

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    11:08 AM
    Smashardt
    Dragon Knight
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    Raisenhell
    I also don't like selling FM slots, althought i think that this isn't a problem because it's easy to just get another spot somewhere else.
    I just don't like the notion people blocking certain game features (for example maps) for other people in order to make a profit, when those features are intended to be used and enjoyed by all players.

    Edit:
    Yeah, true. A FM spot is kind of a long term investment...
    Maybe it is alright to sell FM slots, after all a big part of the FM is people competing over the best chances of selling their stuff.
     
  11. Chew
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    Chew Headless Horseman

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    You gotta enable the ability to see who voted, if you don't, people are going to vote in a way that scews the result in their favor.
     
  12. Glissando
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    Glissando Pink Teddy

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    I say deliberate blocking of a map to sell it should be outlawed but if you are holding the map as an owner using your main character who was training, it is quite fair. You can sell it but if there is no demand, nobody buys it anyway.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2017
  13. James M
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    James M Mixed Golem

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    5:08 AM
    GosuDesu
    Buccaneer
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    TreeHouse
    Skelegon map has a mini-dungeon with a limited timer. Problem (almost) solved.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
  14. Else
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    Else Mixed Golem

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    hmm not really, people dont train in that map, its quite bad compared to the outer one.

    secondly, about the diffrences. those are only in time frames.

    i wouldnt buy FM spot as im logging in once every 2 days. its the same of u going in 2-3 different times in the same day if u think about it.
     
  15. Trabin
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    Trabin Horny Mushroom

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    ShadeImpulse
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    I'd make a note on map selling/purchasing, Then, like mentioned above, have to make note about bossing and selling of bossing services (Unfortunately). For someone like me, having the chance to purchase a ZHelm before level 70 when I can actually join in a Zakum battle is kind of nice, same with the possibility of a HTPend. The issue is true, that the take over of maps buying and selling slots is a little more than ridiculous, however, this is an issue that started with MS proper and has been active on every private server I've ever been a part of.

    There really isn't a remedy except putting a timer on every map or @mapowner, and that's really not feasible. Then there's the idea of additional channels, where in a max of 16 or 22 channels would be easier to manage and open more slots until the issue comes back again, which in turn isn't Financially feasible if the server relies on donations alone. 9/10 users don't donate, and those who do only tend to donate the lowest possible. Then if you make it a donate monthly for access, you'll lose player base.

    So, Enforcing a solution to this problem no matter how annoying it is and how it removed certain possible exp gains from other users, the facts remain that it will happen and others who aren't willing to pay either get lucky with an open map/bosses or they find alternatives to get what they need.

    As for the Free Market, It is annoying. Selling of Store spots is a bit different. However, they still put an item in, and the thought that when the item is sold that the store automatically closes? Yeah, That doesn't happen. At All. The shop stays put regardless and only closes when the Store timer runs out of time or the server resets, which means the buy out doesn't actually work unless the user is online to actually close it, which usually isn't the case or they are AFK. The fact that they put a item in the shop constitutes it, unfortunately, as an actual shop, no matter if it's a shop for land or just the item. And by doing so, they choose the value of the item in place of what they choose the value of the land, which I guess is the same concept as deciding the value of a map.

    If Anything, if it is allowed, it must be properly regulated. Cost has to have a cap as considered the value of experience/items/mesos per hour or whatever time frame(which there are several calculators and trackers available to figure this out) at a percentage of the total, i.e. 10-30% value (If anything), NOT counting skills that increase said things (NL Meso Boosts, ect.).
     
  16. Hyoon
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    Hyoon Zakum Retired Staff

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    I honestly think it's fine.

    When you have mapowner, you can do whatever you want with the map as it is yours.
    You can train there for 24 hours straight, you can sit there and hit a monster every 10 minutes.
    Whatever it is as long as you maintain mapowner it's yours.

    As for selling the map there's always a risk for the seller as well.
    Sellers usually sell the map when they are finished with training, have something else to do, or getting off.
    During that timeframe where they are trying to sell the map, they must maintain the mapownership.
    This could take a short time of course, but it could also be a very long time frame and may also have to use their own NX to get the word out.

    So I do believe it's fine, as long as they don't break any rules in the TOS.
    ie. Scamming, botting to hold map, etc.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 6
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 2
  17. VictorH
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    VictorH King Slime

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    Victorinosky
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    as loong our community has grown i demand Liberty !!! if someone kss me im fucking okay with it cuz im not the owner of map or channel or world , i demand @mapowner delete and no ban or punishment for do whatever u want on game (as long u not hack) its okay to have rules but cmon wtf we live in a world of rules abussed and our little spaceof liberty must have rules too ? and stupid ones ? if i want to kss map ima do it if someone wants to kss me ima enjoy the struggle cuz struggle is what keeps the sense of joy
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
    • Agree Agree x 2
  18. Hyoon
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    Hyoon Zakum Retired Staff

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    You may be okay with it but a majority of the community isn't.
    Especially when everyone wants to get the most out of their exp when grinding.
    Similarly you wouldnt want someone whos constantly afking in a pq with you as it slows down the amount of exp you gain.
    If its not an issue with the person who has mapowner then thats fine, but if they don't then thats when we have to step in.

    As much as ks wars were a thing in gms, we want to keep away from such silly conflict as everyone just wants to enjoy the game.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  19. VictorH
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    VictorH King Slime

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    Victorinosky
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    We are talking about a free to play game , and is not the same as pq cuz we are talking of grinding if they want a solo progressive game well they shouls pay and make a vip world ? wich could handle only a couple of players
    i demand @mapowner delete and no more punishments for trying to play free , KimberlyKimberly
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 4
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Trabin
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    Trabin Horny Mushroom

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    Again, this will detract from player base. Part of what makes a private server so great is the community in which plays the game. You could just boycott Mapselling.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1

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