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Information September 2023 Balance Changes [Explained]

Discussion in 'Update Notes' started by Nise, Sep 11, 2023.

  1. Edann
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    Edann Slimy Retired Staff

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    Oct 24, 2020
    6:20 AM
    Edann
    I/L Arch Mage
    200
    Pasta
    Don't take me wrong I'm thankful this is fixed, but with how almost common-knowledge this nerf was precieved within the community I'm shocked this is only fixed now as a "by-the-way", and I want this to be an example for staff to improve on their transparency and handling of player feedback.

    Here's just 2 examples (thanks blen) of people bringing it up as early as 2020 - I've personally brought it up with staff before myself.

    https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/drop-rates-for-mages-bishops.28439/#post-202057

    https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/hidden-mage-droprate-nerf.30051/
     
    • Like Like x 2
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  2. Esmo
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    Esmo Pac Pinky

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    Nov 8, 2019
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    6:20 AM
    Esmo
    Beginner
    UpperLeveL
    alchemist is completely useless now
    shadow star nerf from 180 seconds back to 120
    star costs
    reverted crit damage and chance to the original lame %
    the mtk damage change was only a buff to rich players who already had mtks
    so yea nerf for the casual

    next coming up shifter 20seconds cooldown and triple throw nerf because why not? keep the train running

    Not expecting from the staff team to understand they don’t main NL but the “budget classes”
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2023
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  3. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    10:20 PM
    Fartsy
    F/P Wizard
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    NT weapons were a buff to NL
    Ele pierces were a buff to NL
    Timeless weapons were a buff to NL
    FS were a buff to NL
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
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  4. Esmo
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    Esmo Pac Pinky

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    6:20 AM
    Esmo
    Beginner
    UpperLeveL
    End game weapons where the casual player will never get? people have life I don’t wanna be stuck to my computer chair
     
  5. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    Sep 22, 2021
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    8:20 PM
    leetoratto
    Bowmaster
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    I don't have a life or endgame weapons. I'm just here to shitpost on the forums.
     
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  6. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    Fartsy
    F/P Wizard
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    so just stick to steelies or something
     
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  7. iPippy
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    iPippy Nightshadow

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    May 19, 2019
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    11:20 PM
    iPippy
    If the NLs don't want 200% alchemist healing, give it to DKs. I'm sure they'd appreciate it more.
     
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  8. CaptainNemo
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    CaptainNemo Slimy

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    Oct 3, 2017
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    8:20 PM
    CaptainNemo
    Islander
    Ossyrians
    I'd gladly take it on Ranger in exchange for Thrust. OnionSpark
     
  9. Daydreamer
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    Daydreamer Headless Horseman

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    Jul 8, 2017
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    8:20 PM
    I/L Arch Mage
    Bro give it to Archmages! I'd LOVE that skill LOL.
     
  10. Soblet
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    Soblet Zakum

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    Sep 14, 2015
    5:20 AM
    Soblet
    Bandit
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    Bandits would gladly trade your nerfed alchemist for chakra ty.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. Miney
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    Miney Slime

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    Jun 2, 2021
    1:20 PM
    Miney
    Corsair
    We absolutely need this. Make a tier-based metric like how pouches' droprates are, and it should be clear where to find the info.

    I don't want to be guessing what skills does what, what to use and what not to when there's no apparent information to refer to.

    People definitely shouldn't need to dig into some random balance note to find important info like summons have reduced droprates, or from common gossip that mage ults have reduced droprates (and even this was misleading gossip - mages as a whole had reduced droprates)

    -----‐------

    That aside - I strongly disagree with the nerf on Corsair's Aerial Strike. It's a 5 second CD, 6 target skill. Its probable only reason being classified as an ultimate is its wide range. If someone could make 4 sairs and multiclient farm, what's the difference to them to make 4 of anything and multifarm with their 4-to-6 target, no cooldown skills in smaller maps where positioning isn't a concern?

    I know Aerial Strike is classified as a "slight" nerf. But I don't agree or see the justification for it to need a nerf at all, lest all classes' multi target skills would need a "slight" nerf as well.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2023
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  12. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    Fartsy
    F/P Wizard
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    much of the farming nerfs were really the result of like 2, maybe 3 players. it’s definitely justified, however this just the result of lazy balancing as they refuse to target the underlying system.
     
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  13. Miney
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    Miney Slime

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    Jun 2, 2021
    1:20 PM
    Miney
    Corsair
    We probably have some of those players moving to multi-shad grinding now. Ok, nerf Shadowers. Then they move onto, say, multi-poison mist farming setups with its now increased dropate. Nerf F/P. Oh, now they're doing multi-Heaven's Hammer setups. Nerf Paladin.
     
  14. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    Fartsy
    F/P Wizard
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    ur welcome
     
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  15. Soblet
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    Soblet Zakum

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    5:20 AM
    Soblet
    Bandit
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    Well it's not always nerfs, buccs got their avoid increased after dexbuccs so I'm hopeful for the other jobs.
     
  16. brunandes
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    brunandes Windraider

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    Aug 29, 2021
    11:20 AM
    The only logicial extension from this is that dark knight should have avoid increased after roar mule nerf.
     
  17. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    Fartsy
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    DK actually has quite good avoid after 4th job
     
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  18. brunandes
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    brunandes Windraider

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    11:20 AM
    Will be an unnecessary buff, similar to how it was given to buccs too then.
     
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  19. kiwiz
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    kiwiz Skelegon

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    May 7, 2018
    11:20 AM
    I don't know what "less efficient" means. Anything below 100% is less efficient. I don't play DK, but I’d imagine a regular DK as little Timmy with a 12-color crayon box, coloring whatever appropriately. Then there's another kid who bought 4 boxes and decided to use only the purple crayons, coloring everything purple. The teacher didn't like purple cows, so she confiscated everyone's purple crayons and told Timmy, "Hey, you can still use red and blue crayons to make purple."

    Another way to put it is that if a unit has 100% efficiency, and having four of them could be 250% due to diminished returns from factors such as needing to control more of them or other constraints, the unit's efficiency would have a range of 100-250%. Instead of balancing only the upper limit to, say, 100-125%, it's like reducing a single unit to 50%, causing it to naturally scale to 50-125%.

    My main point is that rates should be measured with respect to something quantifiable, a numerical value that has mathematical significance. Secondly, it doesn't feel good for Timmy to have his crayon taken away when he was just using it normally, as opposed to limiting the number of crayon boxes the other kid has. Unfortunately, this situation is quite relatable to real life, and there isn't much we can do about it.

    It's fine if the exact computations aren't revealed, but having meaningful numbers rather than vague words with arbitrary values would be helpful. For example, if Skill A is at 100%, what would Skill B be at? There should be a way to estimate these numbers from the computations in the code, even if it's situation-based, and provide a breakdown for transparency.

    I mentioned that I don't mind it, but it's essentially stating that I'm not opposed to multi-clienting or leeching, and I understand that I won't receive the same advantages by abstaining from participating. However, when an issue is caused by these practices, the aspects that don't involve multi-clienting or leeching should remain unaffected.
     
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  20. Sloppy
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    Sloppy Horny Mushroom

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    11:20 PM
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    The fact that Aerial strike had its drop rate nerfed as well shows that the main cause of these nerfs is multi-farming, something that IMO shouldn't even be able to be a thing. Nerfing skills due to people running 4+ of those characters at once hurts casual/new people the most, and is a poor choice of a "fix".



    3rd Job DK and it definitely negatively impacts non funded and casual players. I want my purple crayons back, they taste the best. Skills shouldn't be changed based off of people taking advantage of dynamics that are allowed to be done. In one of the other threads people are literally talking about running 6+ mages at once for farming. Might as well just allow botting at that point Imo.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2023
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