1. Hello!

    First of all, welcome to MapleLegends! You are currently viewing the forums as a guest, so you can only view the first post of every topic. We highly recommend registering so you can be part of our community.

    By registering to our forums you can introduce yourself and make your first friends, talk in the shoutbox, contribute, and much more!

    This process only takes a few minutes and you can always decide to lurk even after!

    - MapleLegends Administration-
  2. Experiencing disconnecting after inserting your login info? Make sure you are on the latest MapleLegends version. The current latest version is found by clicking here.
    Dismiss Notice

Set Prestigious Coin Prices to be a Fixed Mesos Price

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by zeroxlr, Aug 1, 2022.

  1. TORONTOTOKYO
    Offline

    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

    435
    42
    291
    Oct 16, 2021
    2:03 AM
    npc selling ws/cs/coins when? power creep so what? we are already power crept and are a top heavy population.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  2. yurain
    Offline

    yurain Windraider

    420
    95
    301
    Dec 30, 2019
    2:03 AM
    YUrain
    I/L Wizard
    55
    It is not power creep. This is just players asking for possbility of individual progression.

    There is basically zero individual progression a normal player can have right now. And this is just getting worse for anyone who doesn't multi mage farm.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  3. Rapskal
    Offline

    Rapskal Chronos

    82
    56
    103
    Nov 1, 2017
    Male
    5:03 AM
    Rapskal
    Night Lord
    Lost
    Honestly disagree with this sentiment, multi-clienting is totally the cause.
    When people talk about the economy being broken, the only real problem they're referring to is the way certain highly contested items are becoming increasingly unattainable to "casual" players, where casual tends to be defined by how many characters you farm with at a time. As long as single-client farmers are competing with multi-client farmers for the same limited resources, it will always be extremely difficult for the single-client, regardless of changes to classes, maps, or the value of mesos.

    The way I see it, there are essentially only 3 ways to address this.
    1. Make the items uncontested by having an NPC sell them at an attainable price for the casual players. This would be good for the casuals, but it means multimagers will be able to create perfect gear wayyy quicker. And when everyone's super no one will be
    2. Try and remove multi-clienting. This seems technically infeasible, and even if it could be done, it would be upsetting for the philistines players who enjoy multi-clienting.
    3. Do neither. Contested items will continue to be difficult for single-clienters to obtain, but why should that kind of player even deserve the best items? If they really want them, they can start multi-clienting too, or just put in 5x as many hours/years to gain the same results :)
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Creative Creative x 1
  4. Ainz
    Offline

    Ainz Zakum

    1,666
    1,081
    490
    May 2, 2015
    Male
    Netherlands
    7:03 PM
    So many I keep forgetting
    0
    Wouldn't a much healthier approach be nerfing the feasibility of multiple clients, as opposed to just lowering a map's numbers?

    Nerfing ToT meso/hr is going to result in more 2-channel-viks, ensuing viks nerfs are gonna result in whatever next optimal map pops up. The problem isn't so much that ToT is broken meso/hr, it's the fact that using 8 clients there is perfectly doable (if not ridiculously easy).

    Removing safespots (as a random example) keeps the map a healthy farming option for melee grinders (finally shads will have decent income from ToT again) while increasing the effort for multimaging.

    I understand that you can still octaclient ToT without safespots if you just time your casts correctly (same way in which duo viks essentially costs 0 hp pots), but it'd at least make it more challenging.

    Tl;dr, the problem isn't the income from the map itself, the problem is how the maps don't punish obscene numbers of clients.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  5. OP
    OP
    zeroxlr
    Offline

    zeroxlr Windraider

    437
    500
    296
    Oct 11, 2020
    10:03 AM
    xxxxSnuggles
    Beginner, Camper, Islander
    It would be nice if the only solution for the inflation of the economy is to exact punishment every time there's a new farming map.

    Are mesos/hr is not the real issue? Is play-style, the issue?
    • Either to cap mesos/hr or remove safe spots every time there's a new map found?

    If a certain play-style didnt make that much mesos/hr, then shouldn't it be okay?
    • Unless the argument isn't about mesos/hr, but against those types of people who uses more than 1 map at a time?

    If mesos/hr is lowered, then this could deflate the economy, and also help everyone by providing more high value scrolls/equips into the FM.


    It would be nice to solve the inflation by fixing the price of high value WS/CS, and Pcoins to mesos, while at the same time as to lower mesos/hr and or hinder certain play-styles.
    • Would both punitive measure need to be taken, in order to enact the Fixed Pricing of WS/CS/Pcoins?

    If these conditions can be adjusted together, then maybe there's a better chance to find a balance where players are still relatively free to play how they like, and still be able to save up +500 to 1k IRL hours worth of mesos to perfect at least 1xequip
     
  6. optifreepure
    Offline

    optifreepure Slime

    22
    1
    15
    Jun 10, 2022
    1:03 PM
    Removing safespots only increases pot consumption which would be a miniscule cost compared to the profits made. Vikerolas and cornians don’t have safespots but are very farmable and profitable, it’s all about timing and positioning.

    The real problem is the sweepers that easily allow 10-mage farming. Imo, all drops should only be allowed to be picked up by the killer, noone else. As we can all clearly see, the sweeper nerf from last summer didn’t do anything to fix the crazy inflation. Get rid of sweepers and farming becomes a lot more work and will be contained to 6-8 mage farming at maximum. Currently it’s possible to farm with 12 mages with sweepers that have silver manes, removing safespots would only continue to concentrate money making abilities to those that already have 6 or more mages.

    Last year’s sweeper nerf was introduced when ws/cs were 160m, now that they are reaching 400m how will the staff address the inflation that is out of control? The only way to afford them is to multimage and we are officially now a mage farming server.
     
  7. -ovv
    Online

    -ovv Horntail

    2,226
    875
    500
    Feb 23, 2020
    Male
    10:03 AM
    -ovv
    Beginner
    200
    Honor
    This does nothing to nerf 2 channel vikerola, which are already swept by mages themselves and yield more raw mesos than ToT.

    Reducing wages in an inflated economy is going to have more adverse affects than y'all think. Toon is right in that there needs to be a systematic way of draining out the mesos being generated. There should also be alternative ways to gain similar amounts of funding so that MageLegends becomes less one-dimensional than it currently is.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. optifreepure
    Offline

    optifreepure Slime

    22
    1
    15
    Jun 10, 2022
    1:03 PM
    It would, most vikerola farms use sweepers and this change would force the mages to move around which is a lot more work and intensive than using sweepers. Not only that it’s currently possible to do vikerolas and 2 channels of tot with sweepers. And due to the lack of availability of open channels most opt to 2 to 3 channel farming at tot which is only possible with the current sweeper method.
     
  9. -ovv
    Online

    -ovv Horntail

    2,226
    875
    500
    Feb 23, 2020
    Male
    10:03 AM
    -ovv
    Beginner
    200
    Honor
    Two-channel vikerola with 4x meso up mules and mage sweepers is fairly afk and yields 30m+ depending on oa 10 prices. Vikerola farmers who use sweepers miss out on like 4m raw mesos since they cannot use Meso Up. All this would do is move people from their ToT set up back to their multichannel vikerola + cornian set ups which still yield about 30-40m.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  10. optifreepure
    Offline

    optifreepure Slime

    22
    1
    15
    Jun 10, 2022
    1:03 PM
    I farm both vikerolas and tot and have done 2 ch vikerolas with no sweepers and it’s not afk at all, it’s very intensive timing everything to not get hit and lose position and pick up all drops within 3 minutes. Sweepers allow farmers like me to do 3 channels at once. Some are creating more mages to do 4 as of right now which is only possible with sweepers. Yes not being able to use meso up is a detriment but being able to farm another entire channel makes up for the losses and increases profits even further. And cornians take more m.att than ml1 or ml4, there are only a handful of people right now that can farm 4+ channels of cornians vs memory lanes or viks. Even if you removed all the safespots at tot right now it would still be farmable with 12 mages using current methods with the sweepers.
     
  11. -ovv
    Online

    -ovv Horntail

    2,226
    875
    500
    Feb 23, 2020
    Male
    10:03 AM
    -ovv
    Beginner
    200
    Honor
    I've done my fair share of 2-channel Vikerola farming to leech my attackers up, so I'm fairly well-versed on this topic. You only have to move 1 mage at a time with mounts, and juggling four mage sweepers isn't that big of a deal when you have about 8 seconds in between each respawn to sweep the bottom or top platforms. The rope climbing speed buff made vikerolas all that much easier.

    Multichannel ToT without safe spots would require synced respawns. Without it, it would be a huge mess trying to reposition your mages, cast asynchronously, and sweep.

    Edit: I'm not arguing that moving away from ToT is a bad thing. I think more people farming at Vikerolas is fine because it definitely is more work than current ToT madness, and it will self-regulate based on availability restrictions. I'm just saying that removing sweepers won't have the same effect you're thinking it might. We've already dealt with a sweeper nerf before and it was quickly adjusted due to community backlash, but it also took very little time for people to develop workarounds such as mounted mage sweeping.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. OP
    OP
    zeroxlr
    Offline

    zeroxlr Windraider

    437
    500
    296
    Oct 11, 2020
    10:03 AM
    xxxxSnuggles
    Beginner, Camper, Islander
    Other than killing sweepers, what other non-punitive measures are there to solve inflation?

    Sweepers are part of the community too:
    • Everyone is a sweeper of sorts when playing with friends
    It’d be detrimental to constantly nerf and take punitive measures that hurts/hinders QoL for the normal players without addressing the inflation of WS/CS/Pcoins directly.
     
  13. optifreepure
    Offline

    optifreepure Slime

    22
    1
    15
    Jun 10, 2022
    1:03 PM
    My point is not the feasibility or ease of 2 channel vikerola farming it’s the fact that it’s possible to farm 3~4 channels with the current sweeping methods which wouldn’t be possible and limited with a total nerf of sweepers. You do realize 2 ch vikerolas are much less profitable than farming with 12 mages? Limiting the current capabilities of farming needs to take place and that would mean getting rid of sweepers. And tot farming doesn’t even require safespots, you don’t have a platform to fall off and climb a rope to reposition like at vikerolas. And assuming consecutive spawn channels exist, which are more than likely, you would only need to time 4 mages per second which is totally doable and would continue this ridiculous trend of using as many mages as possible.
     
  14. optifreepure
    Offline

    optifreepure Slime

    22
    1
    15
    Jun 10, 2022
    1:03 PM
    I think loots dropped by mage ultimates should be limited to only the killer, that would considerably decrease the current farming capabilities. Currently 12 mage farming is possible due to sweepers but it wouldn’t be with another nerf and farming would be contained to 8 mages at maximum.
     
  15. -ovv
    Online

    -ovv Horntail

    2,226
    875
    500
    Feb 23, 2020
    Male
    10:03 AM
    -ovv
    Beginner
    200
    Honor
    You are suggesting getting rid of a fundamental aspect of the game in an attempt to fix a problem that will just shift the meta to something else. I'm telling you that 12-mage farming without safe spots at ToT would be virtually impossible and not worth the effort, even with sweepers involved and even with all channels synced. I'm pretty confident that even 8-mage farming would be significantly higher maintenance if one had to worry about timing, sweeping, and repositioning their mages. The main draw for ToT right now is that you can cast your ults on your mages at any time in the however many de-synced spawn times and still farm efficiently. If your mages were getting bounced around and knocked off their platforms, they would be moving out of position which makes it significantly less afk and requires much more active play. Efficiency doesn't scale well when your attention is constantly being diverted to 15 screens (12 mages + 3 sweepers), whereas farming with 12 mages now only really requires you to pay attention to 3.

    As for vikerola farming, I'm not exactly sure of what your method is, but if done properly, you should almost never be getting hit with the spawns so your risk of falling is virtually 0. The only time I ever fell is when I was getting distracted via chat and I'd miss the spawn, but I eventually adapted by typing between casts and sweeping less.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. optifreepure
    Offline

    optifreepure Slime

    22
    1
    15
    Jun 10, 2022
    1:03 PM
    yes it would shift the meta into something much less profitable than the current one. And I don’t think having mage ultimate drops only being able to be picked up by the killer is that much of a change? We already had a pretty big nerf last year for sweepers and this would only really affect farmers, leechers less-so. Even without safespots it’s much less work to reposition than taking a spawn cycle to climb a rope like at vikerolas, it would still be doable with sweepers vs. having each mage pick up its own loots. And that’s part of the point, to make farming more action intensive than using a sweeper to loop around a map. And I farmed 2~3 channels at vikerolas, it’s just too easy with a sweeper. And I’m not against removing safespots, but the sweepers are only adding to the current problem and needs to go imo
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. -ovv
    Online

    -ovv Horntail

    2,226
    875
    500
    Feb 23, 2020
    Male
    10:03 AM
    -ovv
    Beginner
    200
    Honor
    This problem only really exists if you're running more than 2 channels of vikerola when it's desynced. Sweeping on mages requires you to focus on one window every two respawns, which breaks down your looting cycle across 80 seconds, giving you all the time in the world to focus on sweeping your cornians. I'm questioning if you've efficiently run 3 channel vikerolas because sweeping the entire map on 3 channels/sweepers is mechanically impossible without having your drops vanish or having an incomplete sweep.

    Edit: Actually, I hadn't taken into consideration the possibility of using a second computer to sweep, so scratch that above statement out.
     
  18. OP
    OP
    zeroxlr
    Offline

    zeroxlr Windraider

    437
    500
    296
    Oct 11, 2020
    10:03 AM
    xxxxSnuggles
    Beginner, Camper, Islander
    This is an interesting thought, to use Ultimates as base for changing proc of drops.

    Such that instead of killing QoL for everyone via sweepers, it could be more productive to reduce the mesos(amount)/etcs/equips that are dropped by mobs that are killed by using any ultimate (such as Roar, Air Strike, Gen/Meteor/Bliz)
    • keep drop rates of scrolls, since it's only NPC'd for 1 meso, and when sold on FM it's not "printing" mesos = helps economy.
    But... this may only work if its concurrently with Fixed WS/CS/Pcoin prices, such that they're still an obtainable even after removing the influx of mesos.
     
  19. OP
    OP
    zeroxlr
    Offline

    zeroxlr Windraider

    437
    500
    296
    Oct 11, 2020
    10:03 AM
    xxxxSnuggles
    Beginner, Camper, Islander
    I think the biggest unanswered questions for why WS/CS/Pcoins haven't been given Fixed Meso prices are:
    • Is Power Creep an issue?
    • Should players NOT get at least 1x perfect equip after putting in at least +500 to 1k IRL hours?
    • Would players quit after reaching their goal of ALL perfected equips?
    • Would players quit if even 1x perfected equip are probabilistically unobtainable at all?
     
  20. flow
    Offline

    flow Slimy

    245
    102
    256
    Jan 18, 2021
    Male
    Brazil
    3:03 PM
    Lisnar, HolyFlow, Theorist
    Buccaneer
    166
    Funk
    The biggest problem in multimage is how freaking easy is it, make it hard to do and at least half of the playerbase is going to forget their multiple mages, and people really need stop to talking multimage is the only way to progress in the game, god, this is annoying, you don't need 20+ att gloves to deal damage.
     

Share This Page