Speed Infusion reliance and the case for including Attack Speed Potions

It's an interesting idea, but I personally like keeping it to SI and equips. I would lean to make more classes like warriors if anything - where there's multiple weapon options with various speeds. 2h swords are strong and 6 speed, 1h swords are 5 speed, and a couple odd exceptions like ST (5 speed 120 dex req), Night Raven's Wing (5 speed, 95 dex req), NT 1h (4 speed 125 dex req), and Red Katana (4 speed, no dex req, level 70 weapon).

I mentioned it before in the MM thread, but I think converting the Night Raven's Eye to 4 speed or something could be good for MMs. They'd be weaker than Neschere and higher weapons, but have more speed - kinda like the tradeoff warriors face on speed vs stats. So if you want to carry two separate weapons for SI and non-SI situations, it would be an option.

I think only MM and Sairs are hard-reliant on SI currently (ie. no weapons faster than 5 speed), so maybe Sairs could also get something? They don't have any "special" weapons like MMs, so maybe just buff the level 90 gun to Fast(4)? Since the Sair weapons are super accessible (drops from various normal mobs/bosses, not rare items like the Raven series weapons that MMs have), they shouldn't have too much advantage for how cheap/easy they are to obtain and scroll, but it's only +1 speed to go to (4) for sairs, so I think 90 gun is a good spot to not outclass more expensive guns (110+) too much in non-SI

 

I think it could be interesting to have something similar to the Warrior's NT1hand, some kind of crossbow with lower attack and higher strength requirements, but without the SI reliance.

 

lol, we said almost same thing in the same time, gg

 

I think it would be nice if SI could have a small benefit to all attacking classes. Not sure how that could be implemented tho. I think it would be sad for buccs to have their party buff slowly made obsolete over time with balance changes.

 

We have already crossed the line of giving DrK SI and my question is why would any other class not also be entitled? Buccaneers to me are not even uniquely wanted for SI late game and more for the pinning and TL, so I don't think this would affect any bucc players in terms of being able to enter content. (also this is anecdotal but like I have an SI mule and every high level warrior I know also seems to have one which already reduces the need for a bucc)

And maybe SI could give a sliding scale small damage benefit dependent on how many tiers away from max you were before receiving it. ie;
2 speed away = 0%
1 speed away = 1.5%
0 speed away = 3%

These are just random numbers I have no idea what would be balanced, but I do know needylords couldn't cry about this change :^)

At the very least I think MM is uniquely in need of having SI built in, could even design some kind of active mechanic like it only procs on snipe landing or something.

Also for the idea of having MM switch to using a weapon with lower wep att... MM already has a scaling issue into the late game and that sounds like it would just make the gap larger between MM and BM :^(
(not to mention any MM who has already invested in a xbow would feel really bad for them.)

 

I vote disagree, but not because i dont want to help MMs, but because im playing bucc and it seems the classes we help with SI seems to be disappearing.

I think it would be a fair tradeoff if MMs had access to a faster weapon (that doesnt benefit from SI anymore)
And Slower weapon that packs a hard punch and WITH Si can elevate damage even further (but is worse without si)

Would require delicate balancing though

 

Keep it to marksmen, the alternative fast (4) crossbow idea seems to be the best
Otherwise if there were a potion for weapon speed, everyone on the server would make a Paladin, not that they haven't already

 

with similar equips, mm + si should outdamge bm

 

So what's stopping the MMs from making an SI mule then?

 

I cant tell if this is a shitpost. My point was that even with many people having SI mules (including MM players) that doesn't stop people from desiring buccs in content, and that granting some kind of SI to the 10 people that play MM will not affect the buccaneers.

 

I wasn't shitposting, I have a 17x pally and a 16x SI mule. I was against DK absorbing SI for free and I think that not giving MMs SI will also not affect the buccaneers. I think it was a bad precedent as cl_ogar is referencing.

They can either find [someone with] a bucc to play with in content, or make an SI mule, which only need to be what, level 124 for 11 SI and 1 TL? My 1h NT hammer without SI vs my Crushed Skull with SI can be the difference between finishing solo scar or not if I get really bad WC rng. If they really need it, why are they entitled to anything other than the same obtainable methods as anyone else? Before DK got SI built into their kit I knew more of them who had an SE MM for snipe than I knew with SI mules, and they'll win the hardest if faster weapon speed is given away. I believe I've said on these forums a handful of times that if bucc players aren't [feeling] necessary at the lower levels, then they won't stick around to the higher levels. If the 10 MM players need SI for content, they should either be able to find buccs to play with, find someone with a bucc to play with, or be the someone with the bucc and someone else can cover HS or whatever.

 

Change claws to speed 5

 

For anyone advocating for this, would you also consider giving SE to nls?

I think that classes relying on each other for buffs is part of what makes old school ms. You are basically forced to have a somewhat diverse party composition instead of everyone playing the same class.

 

Remove SE from bow master

 

Yeah if it continues this road then bucc will just become TL mule and pink bean abuser, nothing else.

 

NLs have been well documented as specifically wanting to be chained to se. They dont even want lower dependence on se. Regardless of opinion on si, don't consider their brainrot relevant to other class discussions

 

i think the main underlying question would be, where do we draw the line?

for DK, i can somewhat understand (or assuming) the reasons of it, as the built in SI heavily decide the implementation of active zerk, without built in SI, the whole rework (or active zerk) would fell apart. (and active zerk is kind of the saving grace, with the ‘necessary buff’ as balancing in mind)

at least i do not think that dev implement built in SI for DK, was with the intention to discourage party play/promote independency.

now back to MM, as of right now the only reason to implement built in SI, would be to promote independency. i would think that the question that comes first, would be whether MM need skill changes/balancing, to address late game scaling perhaps? if so, would SI affect/interact with the ‘changed skill’ in any way? will built in SI kept MM within ‘balance’ (assuming through ‘necessary buff’) term? if yes, i would totally support and see it happening, but that’s a lot of assumptions aligning altogether.