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Stews and 6 month expiration date

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Yook, May 23, 2020.

  1. Yook
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    Yook Red Snail

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    Hello. I just read the patch note and one of the notes says: All current Witch's Special Stew's in the server has received an expiration of 6 months starting now.

    Is there a good reason to place this change? There are much more powerful att pots like apples and stoppers that can be farmed indefinitely, whereas stews are only from a yearly Halloween event. So stews are more limited in terms of supply compared to apples and stoppers.

    Please let me know what you guys think of this change. Personally I would like to see this change being reverted, but just making a suggestion and see what others think of this.
     
  2. AioriaX
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    AioriaX Selkie Jr.

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    I think its because the reality of stews being ''limited in terms of supply'' doesnt really cut it.
    Every event, farmers actually make up to few thousand stews (4-5k stews) which are put in the FM for 100 per bundle.
    4k = 40 bundles and will take time to sell.

    Moreover, its not just one farmer who sells stews for merching, its plenty amount and its already almost into next Halloween 2020 and the stew supply from previous years of halloween events have not even deplete (not even close to depletion).

    I understand how this nerf seems exclusive to a potion that you feel can only be obtained from an event and not farmable like apples/stoppers, but I do understand why.

    The witch's stew was initially intended to be event-only exclusive attack potion and not intended to be kept for all-time use. If that was the case, then it will lose its event exclusivity and the admins might as well implement stews to be farmable.

    The only way to tackle this supply and maintain its event exclusivity is to add an expiry date. IMO 6 months is acceptable and not too short. That way you still enjoy half a year duration of being able to use these event potions, and the exclusivity is retained for the other half of the year prior to the next halloween event.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  3. Eminence
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    Eminence Mushmom

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    It makes sense tho... I would eat from a stew 5months and 30 days after it has been made. But 6 months?! Nah. Disgusting. Ew.
     
  4. Fishy
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    Fishy Skelegon Retired Staff

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    3K stews btw lol from 2018, not 2019
    EDIT: these arent mine monkaS , I only made 600

    [​IMG]
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  5. OP
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    Yook
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    Yook Red Snail

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    Well, trying to make stews harder to get without placing an expiration date could be another solution to maintain exclusiveness IMO, but -
    if adding a 6 month expiration is a must, wouldn't it be fairer to apply that change starting with new stews from this year's Halloween, instead of applying to stews from the past?
    Like for players who are taking months of break and don't see this change might come back and discover that their stews are all gone - is this okay? I'm not sure.

    As for me, I took a year long break and came back to play Legends on Dec 2019, and if this change had happened last year May, all the stews I worked to get for a month in 2018 Halloween would have been gone unbeknownst to me. And if that happened I would have been really confused since the stews I saw before I took a break did not have an expiration date on them, and they are all of a sudden gone after I come back to play the game.

    I believe players have to know that their items are in fact expiring even when they are taking a break from the game. If this change is made, old players who come back after 6 months or more will automatically lose stews that they thought were not expirable. And there are players who come back after a long time - like me.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  6. Haku
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    Haku Dark Stone Golem

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    Exactly this.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. aaronis
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    aaronis Slimy

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    lmao love it when permanent event items get an expirration date years later, RIP to my boys Agent Earrings u had a good run
     
    • Like Like x 1
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  8. OP
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    Yook Red Snail

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  9. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    The expiry date was a change aimed at an overall toning back on the weapon attack potion/buffs that were on the server that caused an eventual power creep. It wasn't just stews that were changed, it was a multi-pronged approach:
    1. We also changed party bears, cus having runners having a free 20 weapon attack buff for no cost (we give free nx, so yes it's still considered free even if you're spending your nx) added to easier/faster runs
    2. We changed alchemist so that people don't benefit from these strong weapon attack pots for as long of a period 150% duration to 125% duration (btw stew+alchemist was pretty busted)
    3. We significantly changed the drop rate from summons, so that stoppers couldn't be afk farmable
    All these changes would be completely irrelevant if stews continued to exist... indefinitely. Get rid of party bears? Just stew. Shorter alchemist duration? Just stew again. Stoppers harder to farm? Why not just stew, since there's something like 100,000+ of them on the server? (not an exaggeration btw or maybe a slight exaggeration)

    If that was going to happen, then it would create an unfair advantage for those that played in a previous event over newer players. As newer players would always have to buy from older players, and older players would be able to create a monopoly/dictate the price for these best in slot buffs (in terms of duration, weapon attack, and utilization of use slots - since it stacks by 100).

    It is true that if it were made less exploitable during the event, it could've been prevented, but we can't just say "the milk is already spilt" and leave it there. We still have to go up and make sure to clean it up, and hopefully not make a similar oversight in our future events. I hope you understand the situation better after my explanation!
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Informative Informative x 1
  10. kalash
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    kalash Headless Horseman

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    You hit the nail on the head with this, but maybe not in a way you liked. It is true that older players should not have unfair advantages, but these days it feels like the staff is trying to make the game so that newer players can rise to the top quickly, forgetting that the older players took years to get there. I get it's difficult for newer players to join if there's a huge elite that you simply cannot reach, but there's also the older players that just lose the value of all their previous effort.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  11. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Do you mind giving an example of something that makes it easier for new people? Just cus I can't seem to think of anything off the top of my head... maybe shaolin or new content? Toad and NT? Or are we talking even earlier?
     
  12. kalash
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    kalash Headless Horseman

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    Well sure, new content makes it easier sometimes (wew was shaolin a blunder), but I mean the more recent changes with eyes for horntail for example. With most changes, an explanation of "then newer players are invited to runs" is given. I've had to work my way through 4 hour 12 man runs too (you remember those), even though demure was able to clear ht in 20 minutes one time (still legendary folks!). It seems unfair to expect the older players to invite newer (weaker, less experienced, etc) players simply because those newer players have been able to climb faster.

    Before you say it, yes I disagree with the 2 hour timer too since that just disables newer players mostly.
     
  13. cakesogood
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    cakesogood Windraider

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    Hey Nise this event is very new player EZ which I support. Easy to get ap resets, bunch of free potions from boxes, int scrolls gfa scrolls from heartstopper box. And a free 140% Exp coupon for 1 month. Really helps out new player, when I was new player it was a struggle. However now is actually much harder for new player because mannequin get nerf and cannot botting in shaolin temple.
     
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  14. kalash
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    kalash Headless Horseman

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    They didn't even use to exist
    Ah good old times where skeles were the best exp in the game. Glad we're not in that era anymore :)
     
  15. KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    Remeber when on a past event made people create OP equips that never expired so ppl poured all fo their effort and mesos into them so when the GMs found out they messed up they put an expiration date on said items making people thinking of quiting and go nuts for several months? That was a fun joke.
     
  16. cakesogood
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    cakesogood Windraider

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    yes I am glad too. Server have changes and fresh content but still remain nostalgic.
     
  17. MrPresident
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    MrPresident Capt. Latanica

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    Doesn't ciders stacking to 5 completely defeat the purpose of nerfing party bear? If you're going in and out of cave then it's pretty easy to bring in like 6-8 slots of ciders which should be enough for 2 runs if you're keeping HTB. I'd argue that ciders are exactly the same as party bears were before since they are low cost and the only downside of them (1 per use slot) has been changed. Of course if you're sitting in cave for days-weeks before leaving then things are a little different because use slots are more valuable but those squads already don't use much attack pots.
     
  18. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    Sure. If we go back in time, we use to only get 5k nx per vote.

    Then we had vote streaks added that boosted this to 6k nx per day.

    Then we had this buffed to 6.5k nx per day.

    Then we had another vote site added that gives an extra 500 nx per day.

    We've gone from 5k -> 6k -> 6.5k ->7k nx per day. This signficantly makes washing easier, and overall benefits the newer users more since the older players already have made their characters and took into account the lower nx per day into their hp goals.

    This isn't necessarily a bad thing, as older players can be on the same footing as newer players by simply making a new char (and actually have a severe advantage when it comes to funding). But this is def a change that has made progressing the game easier for new players.

    Another thing that comes to mind is event exp bonuses. In the past, 15% flat rate was insane, and the highest we would see. However, to accomodate new players, we recently saw +30% for 120- (christmas event 2018 and 2019? i believe), and +15% for 120 and above.

    This anniversary event further pushed this rate creep to 40% for those 120- and 20% for those 120 and above. I'm all for catch up mechanics existing for new players to reach older players, but they should be balanced to where it shouldn't take a new player less effort to SURPASS an older player. I don't mind if it takes less effort to catch up. With this in mind, I think we should have left 120 and above exp rates at 15% or less.

    If you combine this with new maps, you have an era of legends that is significantly easier to progress in compared to the past.

    In addition to more nx, the recent event has HEAVILY boosted the availability of ap resets. One person has claimed to farm 700+ resets this event (idk how accurate this is, but it is in theory possible given how many different ways to get AP resets there are in this event). Now, I don't actually think that this is an imbalanced event, because it takes significant effort to farm those 700 resets. But, the thing is here that people having the option to farm this many resets does affect the balance of the game with the average level of HP in the server.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. fredaaaaa
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    fredaaaaa Brown Teddy

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    I guess I would belong to the "older players" group for witch stew since I crafted them in Halloween 2018.
    Didn't bother to craft any last year because it was troublesome and I had less time to spare on ML.

    While some older players created monopoly price for stews and extensively crafted them in 2018 and 2019.
    Not all older players do that, like myself included.
    The stews are crafted for myself and my friends and barely any was sold. Only sold like 2 this week because a poor guy was smega-ing.

    Well, I still have plenty of stews leftover from 2018 since I am pretty inactive in-game and I doubt I could finish using them up by 22 Nov. But the currently stews' bug (have to trade 1 by 1 or drop it 1 by 1) is really bugging me to transfer to my main or even sell them away as well.
    Is the sudden implementation of 6 months expiry date on a supposed to be permanent item appropriate especially when it is bugged in-game currently? I do hope the staff would look into a possible extension of the expiry date.
    The last time something like this happened *cough agent eq cough*, I do remember there was a notice put up prior to any actions taken and some of our voices are heard.

    Also makes me wonder if the strawberry cakes from PBPQ are getting their expiry date as well because I have been keeping them since 2019 MapleF10

    & also, if the team's concerns are to look into unfair advantages for new players, I personally do not find it very fair if someone who is on the server for 3months getting what we had for staying with the server for 3 years.
    Thought it would be unfair for old players to sell Christmas Gift Box chair for 400m+ while the Sprout Chair barely sells for 20m.
    Are we gonna set expiry date on event chairs next then? confusedmush
     
  20. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Eyes? Eye... don't know what you're referring to (seriously though)

    Well no, nerfing party bears wasn't JUST about the weapon attack it brought. As I mentioned in my response, it was due to how it was a FREE attack pot, one that only needed to be bought by ONE person, and would benefit the whole map. There was no cost benefit calculation like you would with any other item. It was a free buff, and a given (as in someone will 100% have it on their runs) in every boss run.

    Yea so for the EXP rate for this event, Kimmy did explicitly mention this is a one time thing, probably to never happen ever again:

    This will be the first time and very likely last time we'll ever do a 20% EXP bonus. Like mentioned in the post users below 120 will get a whopping 40% bonus. This is the PERFECT time to start your MapleLegends adventure if you were always discouraged by the rates. We hope you'll have a good time at the event and we thank you so much for the continuous support. 5 years is a really long time, and we hope we can make it even longer.
    .

    With us hitting a huge 5 year milestone as well as the server transitions we've had in the past month, if we were to paint it out as an "exceptional" scenario that would be great :D

    So the stews being 1 by 1 is due to it being an expiring item. It's technically a unique item, so that's why bulk trading doesn't work.

    As mentioned by AioriaXAioriaX the stews were supposed to have event-exclusivity or some kind of limiting factor to it. A limiting factor can be something like the availability of stock (as I mentioned there's like 100,000+ stews out there atm), the difficulty level to obtain (weapon attack PBPQ cakes aren't a guarantee drop), or time-limited use (this would be like golden gacha tickets that need to be turned in before the end of the event, or more simply an expiry date).

    Unfair advantage is the term I used. Having an event-exclusive chair doesn't give you any advantage. There's no reason for new players to buy a christmas gift box chair, besides to flex. The game doesn't require everyone to get a christmas chair. While as, if we nerfed party bears, the next best in slot item would've most certainly been stews until they ran out. Stews lasting 15 minutes, the absolute abundance of them in market and people's inventory (before the changes), even if it became the "to-go" potion to use, it would've stayed well past the 2020 Halloween event.

    Lemme also try to distinguish how the monetary value of chairs and stews differ. Both ofc are based on supply vs demand to a certain extent, but there are more specific indicators/factors that lead to why something becomes expensive or worth something (monetarily). Price of stews would have been valued based off their usefulness, price to performance ratio (one stew giving 15 minutes), and reliance as the new best in slot potion. If we were to summarize, essentially, the value of stews is entirely based on the balancing of the game. ON THE OTHER HAND, the value of chairs has nothing to do with the balancing of the game or anything along that line. It's all arbitrary factors such as "limited edition" and "aesthetics".

    If I were to draw a parallel to real life examples. Imagine a town with two water sources. A communal well and a private well owned by a family. One day the communal well dries up. Now everyone has to go to the private well owned by one family for all their water. It becomes an unhealthy monopoly where the family has the right to set all the prices up.
    ofc, some people will argue that under entirely free market, capitalistic perspective a monopoly shouldn't be regulated cus it'll self regulate
    That would be stews. Meanwhile a christmas chair is like a 62 year-old Dalmore. Not everyone needs to drink wine, and even if you drink wine, you can go for the cheap shit that's in a supermarket. But if you're bougie and money is not an issue, why not go for a Dalmore 62. No one will judge you, but at the same time, no one will force you to get that Dalmore :p
     
    • Agree Agree x 1

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